Being Resilient in Hardship, Handling Back Stabbing Employees, and Finding Unconventional Hires

[00:00:00] But it's rather than looking at that next level as a striving mindset, if you look at more of an

[00:00:10] expansion mindset means you already have more than what you need in life in your blessing list.

[00:00:17] Now anything that you do beyond that by removing the friction on the bother list is going to be

[00:00:22] expansion. Then you are always staying in that positivity that your mental health is better that

[00:00:28] we. Guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset. Today I got the blessing of speaking with Sonny

[00:00:40] Kayla. He went from being an immigrant that didn't have $20 to get across to see the Statute of

[00:00:48] Liberty to the CEO and founder of a nearly a thousand employee organization that got the

[00:00:56] privilege of renting out the island that the Statue of Liberty is on for a first ever event

[00:01:03] of its type. At the end of the day, the American dream is alive and well. And what is the secret?

[00:01:09] It's talent. You don't want to miss out on this conversation if you want to understand

[00:01:14] more about what it takes to be a talentpreneur. So Sonny tell me, you have a really interesting

[00:01:21] story from coming to America, not understanding culture, maybe even some of the language.

[00:01:30] Let's understand you a little bit better. Can we start there?

[00:01:33] Yeah, no, absolutely. No, I appreciate that. Thanks for having me, Damien.

[00:01:38] Yeah, so I was born in India and I was 17 when I moved from my farm in India.

[00:01:45] We're in rural India in 80s, 70s. There was no English. Now India is very different,

[00:01:55] but I was like a farm boy. And normally what farm boys do there back then was you kind of

[00:02:02] really finish your high school and then you get to help your family with the farm. That's

[00:02:09] the typical journey. But I took a different kind of path where I decided to move to the US.

[00:02:18] And there's a whole like story. I won't bore people with that, like how it happened.

[00:02:23] But I decided to move from my village where it was hard to see electricity at the farm. It

[00:02:31] was more like Amish country of 70s back then and to probably the biggest city on earth,

[00:02:38] New York City. And when I'm about to land, I'm like, oh man, am I still on earth?

[00:02:43] And I stayed with a couple of my roommates where I knew from the village. They moved here before

[00:02:48] me and first year I pumped gas in New Jersey because it's full service. Seven days, 5 p.m. to

[00:02:58] 5 a.m., 12 hours every single day for one year because I had to pay off debt for my father

[00:03:06] that he was like $25,000. My target was to make him debt free first and then think about something

[00:03:13] else. Then I was 18 and then I'm asking my roommates, hey what is next? Where can I make

[00:03:18] more money? Where can I do more? I'm hungry, I'm ambitious. And they said, hey we're driving

[00:03:24] taxi and you're going to make double than the gas station and you can probably drive yellow

[00:03:29] cab in New York City. And that's the way I was eligible for my license at 18 and then I got my

[00:03:37] taxi limousine commission license back then. Two weeks classes, reading, learning how to read

[00:03:44] Atlas map because there was no GPS, there was no phone. So you're on your own to figure out

[00:03:49] New York City borrows to drop off passengers. And so I did that and for two years, again 5

[00:03:56] p.m. to 5 a.m. shift, seven days, no vacation, no holidays, no time off and I was able to not

[00:04:04] only pay off that debt of $25,000 saving money for my father but also then I was able to

[00:04:13] save a little bit with the permission of my father that hey do you need more money or can

[00:04:18] I go put myself through college? I was able to start my bachelor degree at a community college

[00:04:25] for the first year. I got lucky that while I started learning English there, I also started

[00:04:30] learning computer language. So English language and computer languages like Fortran, Cobalt,

[00:04:36] to C++ assembly language of Motorola assembly language. So I was able to do my two years

[00:04:48] at community college then I transferred to NJIT, got my degree, then I got my first job in New

[00:04:53] York City as a computer guy like a system admin for a small medium-sized business. That's where

[00:05:00] the job was 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. and it felt like part-time job because I'm a guy who's used to

[00:05:06] seven days, 12 hours working at night going to college in the daytime and I'm like 9 a.m.

[00:05:13] to 5 p.m. Monday to Friday then I asked my boss there that hey do you mind if I work a

[00:05:18] little bit extra and he's like you know as long as you don't work for any other public

[00:05:23] relations firm because that's what they were doing as a business then you're okay. So that's

[00:05:30] where I started going in New York City you know there are huge buildings, a lot of small

[00:05:34] medium-sized businesses you can build your kind of at that time there was no MSP but

[00:05:38] you can probably now build MSP in one building one block so I started knocking doors upstairs

[00:05:45] downstairs to find some extra work to stay busy to make more money and that's how I got like a

[00:05:52] couple of law firms, marketing firm. I will just go through the receptionist knock doors

[00:05:58] and I'm like you know yeah I'm like you know hey what can I do for you how can I help?

[00:06:02] I'm you know I can be your IT guy who can come after 5 p.m. or weekends. I started doing

[00:06:07] a lot of Microsoft exchange migrations, the email migration projects and this is like 2003

[00:06:15] so 2000 I graduated, up to 2003 I worked full-time and that's when I got enough

[00:06:22] business coming in that I resigned from my position and I founded IT by Design.

[00:06:30] It was more like a break fix company so we were like a typical value adder reseller buying

[00:06:35] computers selling computers fixing them and then all of a sudden we got you know some tools

[00:06:42] like connectwise and then I got to know about the recurring revenue model and then we call

[00:06:48] started building our managed services and then 2007 I built my own knock because looking at my

[00:06:56] uniqueness I know you're big on differentiators so I'm like you know one thing that

[00:07:02] I am made very different or I have very different life journey is that I can create

[00:07:10] my knock with the US standards where my US I mean my New York City customers are very demanding

[00:07:17] highly highly you know demanding customer and they not only want US standards they want New

[00:07:23] York City standards and I'm like you know the only way to do it is if I can control the

[00:07:28] quality of talent that I bring in to build 24x7 so 2007 we built our knock for our own

[00:07:34] MSP but it got really it got borrowed by some of my friendly peers in my peer groups and that gave

[00:07:42] me an idea that hey rather than just selling directly to SMBs I can just sell through MSPs

[00:07:49] my knock my help desk the global technical service delivery capability that I have built

[00:07:56] for my business so we shifted our focus from SMBs to MSPs and now we have about 400 plus

[00:08:03] MSPs we have our own annual conference we have our SaaS platform on talent so the journey has

[00:08:11] been great but one thing Damien that I love sharing when I go to homeless shelters here and

[00:08:18] really to give back and I'm like you know I need to take information food to the to shelters

[00:08:25] to people where they can get probably inspired with my journey and and really be on their own

[00:08:32] and it's more like American dream is alive American dream is alive but you have to pay

[00:08:39] your dues you have to work hard you have to think big bigger you know big dream big dream

[00:08:46] you have to put hard work behind your dreams then that American dream is a reality I am

[00:08:54] I am you know like someone like me who didn't know English and I had to learn few words you

[00:08:59] know fill it up like asking at a gas station how much and people will be like fill it up even

[00:09:07] that word was hard to understand and then in New York City learning that street language

[00:09:16] if I can make it like people we are they're born here they have that head start they can

[00:09:24] do well but all America wants is that like entrepreneurship America rewards

[00:09:29] but you have to pay your dues and you have to hard work when work hard create value with

[00:09:35] standards and when I came here Damien the the first week my roommates in Jersey City

[00:09:42] because this is where I came they took me to the Jersey side of the Statue of Liberty

[00:09:49] and talk about American dream and I'm like man you know like wonder of the world how lucky I am out

[00:09:54] of one billion people this is your first week in America first week in America so they took me to

[00:10:00] to the to the Liberty Park which is the Jersey side where you can see Statue of Liberty

[00:10:05] and I didn't have eight dollars to pay for the ferry and it was about 12 dollar ticket to

[00:10:12] see the statue so total you needed about 20 dollars I mean I didn't have any dollars I

[00:10:17] was in debt and you know I'm like you know I could have borrowed from my roommates but I'm

[00:10:22] like you know I see this close by so I'm good I was in that moment of gratitude

[00:10:28] that you know I feel felt so much gratitude that out of one billion people in India I made it

[00:10:35] like as a farm boy village boy like how do you get that opportunity to see Statue of Liberty

[00:10:41] Liberty so close so but then you know I never knew that just in a matter of

[00:10:48] two decades that if I work hard have that big dream that I can rent this entire island

[00:10:54] because that's what we did in 2022 IT by Designs build a conference we rented this entire

[00:11:03] Liberty Island and had a huge party the MS the first probably technical

[00:11:11] technical tech conference that happened we made history by not only doing the tech

[00:11:17] conference the first one there but the MSP's MSP conference is normally our lesson on New York

[00:11:24] City side but that was the first MSP conference where it was a three-day conference and one

[00:11:30] evening was a Statue of Liberty so people asked me where they came from other states they're

[00:11:36] like oh my first time in New York I never knew that you can rent the entire island and Statue

[00:11:42] of Liberty and I'm like if you work hard pay your dues in America you can rent anything

[00:11:50] anything really is possible so what was the time frame from staring at it your first week

[00:11:56] in America to 2022 where you're the first MSP event first tech event renting out LS Island

[00:12:04] where the Statue of Liberty is and throwing you know an amazing party for everybody that

[00:12:10] was learning everything there so yeah what does that time 29 years so I came here 20 1993

[00:12:17] and our conference there was 2022 so 22 plus seven nine 29 years and but that those 29 years

[00:12:28] of really like just being a normal person in community college start taxi to tech

[00:12:39] and it's more like the day I that day I felt something special about America

[00:12:46] and I'm like you know I'm standing on this freedom island called the Liberty Island and

[00:12:52] and the whole DJ and the drums and everything the whole party was under American flag on

[00:12:59] Statue of Liberty right next to the statue there was American flag so we it was underneath

[00:13:04] that flag so I'm looking down I see freedom I'm looking up at the flag I see freedom and on my

[00:13:11] left side was the statue which is a symbol of freedom and on my right side was Freedom Tower

[00:13:20] World Trade Center site and I see freedom so I'm like you know I was in tears and people ask

[00:13:26] me why are you why are you why are you having these tears when I was talking to people

[00:13:32] and I'm like it man I just you know I have this emotion of gratitude I have this emotion

[00:13:38] of gratitude for this country and that this what this country can offer to everyone right

[00:13:44] that people talk about you know like there's a lot going on in the world right now and

[00:13:49] especially the mindset and I'm like you know I wish people can see this perspective

[00:13:55] that it is the American dream is possible anything is possible there is no better country

[00:14:00] than this on earth that I have experienced by being born in a different country and

[00:14:07] traveling a lot I'm like a world traveler I just don't see anything better than this

[00:14:12] and that emotion was that if you do the right thing and you are a growth mindset person

[00:14:21] anything is possible in this country I love that I love how you connected the two I'm curious

[00:14:28] did you feel more grateful when you were your first week in America and I love how

[00:14:34] you connected it to you know a billion people in India and I'm standing here

[00:14:38] or did you feel more grateful 29 years later when you're surrounded by

[00:14:43] thousands of people and you're able to run out the island where the statue of liberty yeah I

[00:14:48] think the mindset that I you know this is this was not there when I mean I was younger

[00:14:54] but now slowly but surely the mindset that I have developed is that as long as my future

[00:15:00] is bigger than my past means the growth is there it's not just money it's just overall my

[00:15:06] intellectual wealth my overall learning and growing that as long as I am a better version

[00:15:13] of myself today than my past I'm in gratitude and so that was a choice that day like looking

[00:15:21] at what I have not what I don't have that day and the same thinking was there in 2022

[00:15:27] what I have rather than what I don't have because there will there will be bother no matter what we

[00:15:35] achieve in life we always have a choice to look at more of our bother list or our blessings list

[00:15:43] if we get up in the morning and start kind of really looking at what we have what is

[00:15:48] what is the blessing what is the gain right then we are more focused on the positive list

[00:15:58] that we have in our life and our brain is always as dan son dan sullivan will say

[00:16:06] your eyes and your ears your eyes only see and your ears only hear what your brain is looking

[00:16:13] for so if you train your brain to look for the blessings list and you always will have bother

[00:16:24] but bother is more like okay what can I do about this situation what is in my controllable list

[00:16:31] and still stay in that moment of gratitude you need do need to do you do need that fire

[00:16:37] looking at that bother list in terms of more ambition and everything but it's rather than

[00:16:42] looking at that next level as a striving mindset if you look at more of an expansion

[00:16:52] mindset means you already have more than what what you need in life in your blessing list

[00:16:58] now anything that you do beyond that by removing the friction on the bother list is going to be

[00:17:03] expansion then you are always staying in that positivity that that your mental health

[00:17:09] is is is is is better that way your mindset is a growth mindset and that that you're a person

[00:17:19] of gratitude you're making a choice as a human being to stay positive while you're expanding

[00:17:27] expansion is not driving negativity in your mind so that's how I look at it I mean I

[00:17:31] was grateful that day I was grateful in 2022 I'm grateful today just because of that mindset

[00:17:38] slowly that I have learned that how it serves me well and serve people around me well because

[00:17:45] people will then you attract more positive energy you attract more people with gratitude

[00:17:51] you kind of people pick up your phone more because you are a person of positivity and

[00:17:57] gratitude then they love to feel that energy because it's contagious so I just see so many

[00:18:03] byproduct benefits for living my life this way and I call it more like a living life by design

[00:18:12] not by default I love that living life by design the other thing I love you heard it

[00:18:17] from Sunny right is is bother versus blessing so that's it I love the way you can frame

[00:18:23] the mindset you know instead of focusing on what's bothering you what you could be what you

[00:18:28] might not be yet you know focusing on the blessings you have we all have so many blessings

[00:18:34] I think it would have been easy for me if I were standing beside you

[00:18:39] when you were your first you know week in America if I would have been there or standing

[00:18:44] beside you I think I would have been thinking man it just it's 20 bucks too much to ask

[00:18:47] for why can I not go I'm so close like I want to visit it but I love that even then

[00:18:53] you're so close to me and your gratitude was I am so much closer than a billion other people

[00:19:01] and you already had that that gratitude have you ever wondered if you could recover your

[00:19:08] backups let me ask a better question have you ever had a backup fail to recover have you ever

[00:19:14] lost data yeah that's me here's what's crazy 58 percent of recoveries failed to recover so if

[00:19:20] wrong what are we going to do about that well you've got two options enter servosity what we

[00:19:26] do what we exist to do is test your backups and manage them for you we test every volume

[00:19:32] every single day we do weekly testing monthly testing and quarterly testing and you can hand

[00:19:37] off the drudgery and babysitting of backups and the day-to-day management to our team

[00:19:42] that monitors your backups for you it's time to level up your backup game one way you

[00:19:46] can do that is visit servosity.com learn more if you'd like to take the process that I've spent

[00:19:52] the last 18 years building and steal it and apply it to your msp so that you can level

[00:19:58] up your backup game check out the link below in the description or visit servosity.com learn more

[00:20:07] there's so much to unpack there I'd love to get to know you and what really drove you

[00:20:12] I'd love to go all the way back if you if you're open to sharing what kind of environment was

[00:20:18] created where your father said I'm going to send a farm boy to America and it'd go into this

[00:20:24] and create this you know huge expense or debt to do so right and I am no expert but I know

[00:20:30] that that is not that is not normal that's not how things are that's not what you're

[00:20:35] supposed to do and that's that's uh well how did that happen yeah I appreciate that question

[00:20:43] so when I was growing up even in my like high school and even before high school

[00:20:49] my grandfather will give me some tasks in the for the evening every day you do those farm

[00:20:56] tasks so sometimes it's feeding cows to sometimes it's kind of really it was all manual

[00:21:05] labor manual way of agriculture so he will involve me he needed help so he will involve

[00:21:13] me that I will come home from my school I will do homework and then I will go help him

[00:21:18] so I think work ethic like I believe that the way my grandfather and my father they instilled

[00:21:25] that hard work at a very early stage because that discipline was there to to really do that

[00:21:33] hard work every day and then also one another piece was getting up very early like now people

[00:21:40] talk about 5 a.m club do other things like it was always waking up and starting your farm

[00:21:48] duties at 5 a.m even before you before 5 a.m you get up you do your prayer and then you

[00:21:56] do your homework so I think one is that I wish I can do this more with my kids

[00:22:02] that involving them in a way that where they are they face that hardship early on

[00:22:10] their resilience that they have to the tolerance level so the work ethic is number one

[00:22:19] number two like overall in the village there were no opportunities you know access to quality

[00:22:25] education to getting a job but I always wanted to do something bigger and my options were

[00:22:32] overall okay do agriculture or just kind of really go somewhere as a blue and do to do blue

[00:22:40] collar job but where you can make probably more money and then third was like you know

[00:22:47] because I was on track there in terms of finishing my college and finish college there

[00:22:52] so what I did was it's like very funny and probably now not funny but I think interesting

[00:22:58] what came to my mind I was confused should I do agriculture should I just continue with my

[00:23:03] education in India or should I just leave that education to go to like somewhere where I can go

[00:23:09] and America was just one option which was my dream but the the number one dream that

[00:23:16] I had was education that finishing my education right in India and I wrote it down on three

[00:23:24] piece of papers I wrote like agriculture finished my degree in India third was blue collar job in

[00:23:30] America which was my least favorite so I went to my temple and I you know the way the we do

[00:23:38] our prayer so I did my prayer and I'm like I'm going to close my eyes God and I'm going to

[00:23:43] pick up this whatever is there in my head is my destination so I mean that's how like America

[00:23:51] paper the piece of paper that I put it there and then did my prayer and then pick up it was

[00:23:58] America on the paper and I'm like then I'm like dad how long it will take for you to

[00:24:05] get me passport and if you can really support me to get that passport and it took like six

[00:24:11] months from that date and then that's how I chose I'm like you know God even though I want to do

[00:24:17] this education but you are showing me this path maybe there is something that you see here that

[00:24:23] I don't see so that's how it was like faith it was that blind that trusting that okay there

[00:24:30] is that superpower there is something bigger than I can see and that's how I took that path

[00:24:36] and when I came here I mean that's how I came that's how I decided to come here when I came

[00:24:42] here it was like you know I don't have too many skills or anything else language skills

[00:24:47] do anything but one thing that I can do is hard work I can work harder than any one of my

[00:24:53] age so I could have partied in New York City I was that 17 18 age when like I know my kids now

[00:25:00] how like you know like dining other things that they did they're in like you know when you're

[00:25:08] when you're in college and but kind of really committing to that hard work and I think one

[00:25:15] thing that my father told me was more of okay either you're going to do these three four

[00:25:20] years of hard work or you're going to do something for the entire life that you don't

[00:25:24] like and your life will be different so which John C. Maxwell when I started taking mentoring from

[00:25:31] John C. Maxwell he said it in one line pay now or pay later so it was more like I'm like yeah

[00:25:39] it's associated with my dad's teaching that pay now for these four years that's what I tell

[00:25:44] my kids when they're when they come like middle one just started going to BU my elder

[00:25:49] one just graduated from Cornell and I told them one thing pay for pay now for four years work

[00:25:56] hard put your head down and get your education or pay for the entire life means you're going

[00:26:03] to end up doing something you may not like if you don't have education that value of education

[00:26:08] and pay now or pay later and the other piece my father told me was earning money

[00:26:14] is easier in life than earning good people and earning their respect and loyalty

[00:26:22] and the way you do it is add value find great people and add value to them

[00:26:29] I think those two pieces really kind of hard work always that hunger to find

[00:26:36] growth friends growth mentors lifelong learners surrounding myself with those people

[00:26:45] where they are much more smarter than me much more they have much more wisdom than me that I

[00:26:51] can absorb as a sponge I love that you can tell definitely tell your lifelong learner

[00:26:58] so help me understand like I can see it wasn't easy but I could see getting into

[00:27:04] community college right and maybe driving the taxi which is fantastic and then what I'm curious

[00:27:10] about is you know I could even see getting the first IT job but you're doing that and

[00:27:17] you just started picking up some clients like what was it that drove you to to leave what

[00:27:21] a lot of people call the safety of full-time employment yeah and create your own even brick

[00:27:27] fix even tech company you know yeah I mean I didn't have that answer if you

[00:27:32] ask this question like even like two three years ago but when I now recently reflected on this and

[00:27:38] I started doing one exercise that that you know like I have two mentors in my life John C.

[00:27:46] Maxwell Dan Sullivan they always pay a lot of attention to the coach has to pay a lot of

[00:27:51] attention to our past and then Sullivan will say that if you can create it you know in order

[00:27:57] for you to create a bigger future you have to create a better past means anything that's

[00:28:02] bothering you from the past this happened that happened this could have happened any

[00:28:08] bothers from people that you need to make peace with your past and just learn from that

[00:28:13] that's what your brain is looking for and then it gives you some learning some insights

[00:28:18] to create a bigger future so when I look at the exercise with that tool that I did reflected

[00:28:26] on my last best decade my last 25 my last best century and one thing that I started

[00:28:37] connecting there was I mean I was born in an entrepreneurial family in a way because farmers

[00:28:44] what they do they have to work hard for six months to grow their you know their whatever

[00:28:51] they're growing wheat vegetables whatever that's what we were doing and then you hope that with

[00:28:57] that hard work you will sell it one day after a couple of months when that is like ready to sell

[00:29:03] that's when you make money there is no guarantee on a regular basis there is no paycheck coming

[00:29:08] in because entrepreneurship is basically when you create your own paycheck and you take risk

[00:29:14] and then I'm like you know when I came here yes I worked at a gas station with a paycheck

[00:29:18] for seven days 12 hours but when I started my taxi journey it was more of you go to New York

[00:29:26] City to the taxi garage you pay them hundred dollar which is flat fee plus gas that you will

[00:29:34] burn anything that you make on top of hundred dollar and your gas is your money if you don't

[00:29:40] make you lose so it's like every day earning your paycheck like I'm like that is probably

[00:29:46] I learned a little bit more about entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship is basically when you're

[00:29:53] not having paycheck you are you're kind of value-based billing right so so that gave me

[00:30:01] like a little bit more muscle building there during taxi and when I started again working

[00:30:06] doing my job there were two things one that entrepreneurial spirit was all already there

[00:30:13] I have experienced that and I wanted to it was just a matter of what I'm going to do but I always

[00:30:19] wanted to be that entrepreneur so that was like one thing that I was very clear that I'm

[00:30:25] not going to do a job for too many years I want to learn I want to grow and then I want

[00:30:31] to be in a position where I can start my business number two there is that again that

[00:30:37] ambition that hunger to work hard to create more value when you are you know working at your farm

[00:30:46] after high after school weekends you're always with your parents helping them with the farming

[00:30:53] and then you are here working 12 hours seven days that hard work that that work ethic is so

[00:30:59] strong that 9 a.m to 5 p.m job was like a part-time it's like I was not I get my joy from

[00:31:06] work like you can call me workolic but I really enjoy it keeps me healthy my mind my soul

[00:31:15] my my body I just get so much joy from work so when I'm not working then I'm not in balance

[00:31:23] like my work life harmony is not there when I'm not working and but I do what I love and I

[00:31:30] love what I do so where that hunger to being ambitious to grow I think that was another

[00:31:38] piece that is like okay 9 a.m to 5 p.m 40 hours I'm like you know give me more work

[00:31:43] but I'm gonna find more work I cannot live without work so that was like probably why

[00:31:49] yeah so even though we have very different stories of how we got there I see some

[00:31:54] similarities I was working at a cotton mill 12 hours a day six sometimes seven days a week

[00:32:04] to support my family and then going to community college you know on top of it and so I very

[00:32:11] much can relate like if you don't work you don't eat and and then I remember later working

[00:32:16] you know kind of a nine to five or nine to six and I was like what do you do with all

[00:32:20] your spare time like well what else are we gonna do I think it does create that work I think

[00:32:26] I didn't really expect to ask this kind of question but I'm curious we both have kids

[00:32:31] and I know that I want I don't want them to have all the struggles right I want to give

[00:32:37] them better access to education better things and in certain good gifts but sometimes I wonder

[00:32:44] if if if I'm removing some of that struggle that creates that work I think they create those so

[00:32:50] have you figured out how to help your kids experience some kind of challenge or struggle

[00:32:58] and and kind of develop their their own right view I guess however you want to word that but

[00:33:08] how do you raise kids that know how to work hard and and understand that entrepreneur mindset

[00:33:14] yeah I think one thing that is really important as a parent for me is to lead by example

[00:33:22] that when I talk about like my work ethic and also the the relationship the family wheel so

[00:33:29] I look at my life as four wheels my health my relationships which is family and my friends

[00:33:35] and my loved ones and then my career and my legacy so like showing them the work ethic and

[00:33:41] also the love the care your responsibility for them and how you how you build relationships

[00:33:51] how you maintain relationships how you grow relationships and the people sense to find good

[00:33:56] people and then your career side of hard work and also what do you give back so I think like

[00:34:03] really not telling them but showing them with your actions it has a lot more impact on kids

[00:34:10] that's like number one number like I do that so I call it with my live by design program I have

[00:34:18] this that car picture I'm like I have four wheels I need to keep these four wheels in

[00:34:25] in sync there are 168 hours in a in a week so 168 psi and I need to equally distribute

[00:34:36] amongst these four wheels because one equality that we are all born with no matter if I'm first

[00:34:42] generation immigrant or my kids who are second or American born citizens here is we all were

[00:34:49] born with 168 hours no matter what we look like where we come from everyone get that equality

[00:34:57] and I'm like you know I show them with with my balance and you know I more I enjoy saying

[00:35:03] harmony in life is how do I distribute and I do like you know what do you give back

[00:35:09] so with coming here creating a mentoring platform to give back we have seven chapters to develop

[00:35:15] you know underserved communities kids by providing mentors to the kids that's like

[00:35:21] non-profit from what you do with overall giving back to the community and that showing them

[00:35:29] and I just you know the impact my elder son while he's you know like I'm proud of him that he

[00:35:36] went to Cornell as a first generation immigrant like that's like a pride moment for me

[00:35:42] but throughout the four years Damien he like first year he signed up with the local fire

[00:35:48] department to be a fireman volunteer fireman and now he's the captain he's the he's the

[00:35:57] captain of that fire station and he has worked like he will just go there camp there wait for

[00:36:05] the call but slowly kind of developed himself as a leader giving back he did not earn even a penny

[00:36:12] in four years but he has committed so much time and I asked him ask him like you know the

[00:36:20] like how do you do this right so Cornell has a lot of like pressure on kids and I'm like

[00:36:27] how do you do this it's like that it like you know some kids they just go party and I just

[00:36:31] come here and I read and I grow myself and while I feel good that I am I am I'm doing

[00:36:38] service like the service mindset what he learned from is of course like learning from parents

[00:36:48] does help where I mean everyone is unique but when you show your your kids as a parent that

[00:36:55] service is important whatever you do giving back is important so that is where I think that's

[00:37:01] that's one and then you know like they go with us when we go to India or we go to now like

[00:37:07] other peace countries one thing that we show them the world but at the same time we will

[00:37:11] find a homeless shelter or something close by where we take them with us that hey this is

[00:37:17] you know like don't take what you have for granted like just showing them giving them

[00:37:23] other perspective like sometimes I wish more people in America can travel abroad because

[00:37:31] you get your overall the expansion that happens extension of your mindset your your thinking

[00:37:38] extension happens when you travel so that's like one thing that I do for my kids we have

[00:37:44] traveled to about 35 countries so far but not only that I want them to have that entitlement

[00:37:52] type of mindset I don't want them to have that and for that reason while I want to see the world

[00:37:58] with them but at the same time I want them to see that it's not what your parents have built

[00:38:03] it's not normal you know life can be very brutal out there so what do you have be you

[00:38:09] know grateful have that gratitude have that appreciation what do you have and don't lose it

[00:38:15] just don't forget hard work I love that so let's let's talk about as great as this been I just

[00:38:27] wanted to kind of cover one thing where you pivoted from or pivot evolved from building this

[00:38:33] bar to building an MSP and then you had some early peers in your peer group as I understand

[00:38:41] that were just they needed that you got you built this knock and you know 24 by 7 knock is

[00:38:47] it's not a small undertaking so how did you go from that to really not being an MSP at all

[00:38:53] anymore yeah and you talk about that a lot in terms of differentiators right so

[00:39:00] differentiate or die is what what do you normally use and I think that is what was

[00:39:07] like really helped me that really reflecting on what I have so unique that what will

[00:39:16] give me that edge in terms of creating unique value prop which does not exist in the marketplace

[00:39:24] so like when challenge is there one you can just face that challenge and be that normal

[00:39:29] like other is just kind of reimagine rethink like that's probably the word that I was looking

[00:39:34] for so when you are challenged with something reimagine rethink unconventional way to serve

[00:39:40] your customer so when we had in 2007 a lot of hedge funds financial firms in New York City were

[00:39:47] asking us for 24 7 not pager service not other like on call like true 24 7 someone who's

[00:39:55] going to pick up the phone and help there the first call resolution is implemented 24 7

[00:40:01] that's when I'm like you know I looked at the marketplace I'm like I cannot rely on any other

[00:40:08] offshore company because the way I was getting feedback from my peers where they tried using

[00:40:13] them to create 24 7 delivery center in India or Philippines or other places and I'm like you

[00:40:20] know what is so unique about me is that I'm well versed in both cultures I can create

[00:40:25] this for myself where I can control the quality of service the American service standards

[00:40:34] and the New York City service standards that are like even like different so that's where

[00:40:39] just just that one word like how what what is so unique about me my unique ability that coach

[00:40:46] will call a strategic coach will say now Patrick Lansione will say working genius like

[00:40:51] know you're working genius basically knowing about yourself like are you clear about what

[00:40:56] is so unique about you that can create unique value so that was one thing unique about me

[00:41:04] being able to like do it that my 24 7 delivery center in India for my own MSP

[00:41:11] to serve my SMBs better we had no competitor in New York City had that as a true 24 7

[00:41:21] which was their own they outsourced it to someone so when we were able to create that

[00:41:27] success for the customer that's where my peers started my because normally in peer group

[00:41:32] we benchmark our numbers net growth net EBITDA or customer experience and they're like Sonny

[00:41:38] what the heck are you doing that your numbers are like out you know like you are a unicorn

[00:41:45] and I'm like yeah this is what I'm doing which is very different than other MSPs and

[00:41:52] in the other mindset that I think that helped me is that I never look at people who are

[00:41:57] doing the same thing as I'm doing as my competitors I always see good in them that okay

[00:42:04] what do they have what do I have is there something unique that we can probably collaborate

[00:42:10] more so I don't look at my anyone who's in the same business as my competitor

[00:42:16] I look at them as my collaborators that I just have to go deeper rethink reimagine what is

[00:42:24] that one thing that they do well what is that one thing that I do well can we combine our

[00:42:30] capabilities to create something new for the marketplace which does not exist so that's what

[00:42:36] I did with my peers when my peers looked at the numbers and it's like can I you know then

[00:42:41] again being a go-giver I think everything kind of helps everything is interconnected in life

[00:42:47] so having that heart to give to them not looking at any profit from that that friendship

[00:42:53] that peer they asked me to help their business help them to reduce their cost of labor to

[00:43:00] create a new 24 7 capability I did that as a go-giver when they like 10 of 10 peers out

[00:43:07] of 10 peers started using it and then I'm like I cannot like there I cannot continue to donate

[00:43:13] this service but maybe there is a there's potential value that MSPs can can can take

[00:43:21] from this new capability that I have built so that's where I think again then thinking

[00:43:26] different thinking on in order to reimagine reset to be having a bigger dream that okay

[00:43:32] on one side I have just New York City as a territory just Manhattan two miles radius

[00:43:37] and I can expand that to the entire US SMBs through these collaborations so dreaming back

[00:43:46] big working hard being a go-giver thinking different thinking you know what you have as

[00:43:51] a unique ability as a superpower as your god-gifted talent I think those are the things

[00:43:57] that one can think about to be uniquely different how long did it take you to like once you

[00:44:03] started getting more peers to make that mindset shift and go you know because at that point

[00:44:08] like you're already unicorn being benchmarked by your peers who you had some level of what

[00:44:13] people would call success right so you had a successful MSP how long did it take you to

[00:44:19] on one hand like it's amazing to go big and go across America and give up the two miles but

[00:44:25] there's a lot of us that could get stuck with I'm successful why do you want to give up the

[00:44:29] successful thing and as I understand right shift gears you're not competing with MSPs now

[00:44:34] yeah so I think the ones when like my peers were using it they were giving good feedback

[00:44:40] they were seeing the value in that they're like you know so that's when kind of whenever

[00:44:46] you have a new idea new thinking so you have to basically what I do is 80 20 rule that 80 to 80

[00:44:54] percent incremental progress in business like the business that you have your today's company

[00:45:00] that the company that you have today like how do you constantly grow that company but then

[00:45:07] also thinking your future company with a 20 new thinking so you're not disrupting your

[00:45:12] existing company but apparently you're building a new capability new company for the future

[00:45:18] so having some attention some resources there so when you do that and when I have done that

[00:45:25] with the MSP just as a go-giver it was it gave me like the byproduct there was okay up

[00:45:32] taking this new thinking but as a go-giver to to help people but then when people had

[00:45:39] success with that and then I'm like you know this is a validated that's a validation of the

[00:45:44] marketplace that if I do something it's already a tested product it's a referable product if one

[00:45:51] person in the peer group is referring to the second and third and fourth then you have a

[00:45:56] tested a referable product then you can take a little bit more of a calculated risk to expand

[00:46:03] to create that future company let's talk about one I want to before we move on to this and

[00:46:08] that success tech tell me about how you were really in danger with it by design

[00:46:17] facing kind of closure or closure of the company you know we talked about success and it sounds

[00:46:23] great to say you know I was this guy and then all of a sudden now I'm here and that's that's

[00:46:27] really good but you know I know from my perspective the struggles are just as valuable

[00:46:32] so tell me about when you were what happened and how you ended up in that spot yeah I mean

[00:46:39] a lot of challenges right so this is success will never come without failures if you can call

[00:46:45] them failures or learnings the like I look at that more like a learning so a lot of learnings

[00:46:51] a lot of lot of learnings right that's you you you you try something you're not successful

[00:46:59] or you just overall like grow starting your business and growing your business it takes

[00:47:05] a lot of mental strength a lot of hard work so just in the beginning when I started my

[00:47:14] company we had two techs like my first like exposure to real like like mental toughness

[00:47:24] was required in that case like you're small you get more of just kind of you you don't have any

[00:47:32] formal non-compete agreements to other things it's like you're like oh man okay we're just

[00:47:37] three of us just let's do stuff the the two engineers that I had they kind of like I had

[00:47:46] just probably about 20 clients at that time and I gave up on my job site

[00:47:54] and they took 50 of my customers and I didn't have any agreement in place

[00:48:01] and when I went to the attorney and so like that's one like that you will be faced with

[00:48:07] the challenges or sometimes you probably tried reading people and you don't end up doing a

[00:48:14] good job there yeah so let me get this straight you have your two the only it's a person it's

[00:48:20] three person company you and two techs yeah and your two trusted techs not only leave they take

[00:48:27] half the customers yeah they left with the customers there because you know normally you

[00:48:33] send your onset engineer there they build relationships when I was thinking I was doing

[00:48:38] like a little bit of everything then I started doing to like I would dispatch them to do work

[00:48:44] and they yeah they took some customers they created a new it company called two tech co

[00:48:53] I still remember and they they yeah they started then and then yeah so that's like

[00:49:00] my first exposure as it like just in the beginning stage like just in the first two years

[00:49:07] and then I mean a lot of other challenges like sometimes in the beginning like you know you you

[00:49:12] we had break break fix service you have block off hours your projects you are

[00:49:19] billing by hours sometimes you know like you are not cash confident cash rich that sometimes

[00:49:27] you know like just running a payroll the next payroll was like I was sleeping I was losing

[00:49:33] my sleep over there that him and how I'm going to run my next payroll I don't have money

[00:49:38] so those challenges and then I mean everything works out if you stay calm and cool and say

[00:49:44] okay okay how can I be helpful useful every day and create a value that payroll will be

[00:49:51] okay and having that faith that confidence and so a lot of challenges normally when

[00:49:59] you are bootstrapping your business with your cash confidence many times it happened right so now

[00:50:06] we're a totally different company we have a lot more operational maturity to understand the

[00:50:11] forecasting at that time I mean I never knew there's something called forecasting

[00:50:16] I never knew there's something called balance sheet there's like how do you really go about

[00:50:21] pnl and understanding your budgets and actuals and variance and all that good stuff that you

[00:50:26] slowly put that operational maturity level into place so like a lot of financial related

[00:50:32] struggles in the beginning and where you kind of lose everything and I remember in like early

[00:50:39] stage in the first five years they said SBA will say there's a huge crazy percentage of

[00:50:47] businesses that fail in the first five years is I think 80 plus or something and it's

[00:50:53] like even like I had a house and I had to put the entire house as a collateral to borrow some

[00:50:59] money to really stay open as a business we almost kind of shut down and then one another

[00:51:08] like challenge which was like really scary for me was like at that time there were a lot of

[00:51:13] hardware orders like big hardware orders in the beginning I was the bookkeeper bookkeeping

[00:51:18] guy I was doing everything then I had a bookkeeper she she missed on chargeback

[00:51:28] so deliver like a big like a huge hp left-hand sand servers and then you know like I didn't

[00:51:35] have proper qa structures other things and we missed basically a lot of billing

[00:51:41] and all of a sudden like again it's like on one side I'm like I keep losing money man what

[00:51:45] the heck is going on and then I slowly getting deeper into my financials and like doing I'm like

[00:51:51] you know where we were paying the distributor like dnh inger micro but we were not charging

[00:51:59] the customer or they're missing here and there and those were big orders like 50,000 100,000

[00:52:04] and a small business like that really impacts you not only that you didn't make any money

[00:52:09] but you kind of really gave something free to people so even they're like you know like how

[00:52:14] do I mature my bookkeeping process and yeah so many lessons learned over time but the biggest

[00:52:22] lesson that I have learned is that if you have the right who's mean right people then

[00:52:30] you know like in the beginning I know when you're bootstrapping you is hard you are

[00:52:36] doing everything slowly you know if you can make your hard decisions fast enough

[00:52:43] and find like when there is a right person right seat issue and if you can

[00:52:50] have that develop that superpower your ability to find good people and put them in right

[00:52:57] positions then you can be your your your probability of succeeding as an entrepreneur

[00:53:06] is very high if you have that like talent you are a talentpreneur because in order for you to

[00:53:15] be a great entrepreneur you got to be a talent expert being people people side of the business

[00:53:21] I've noticed you've talked about people more than anything you mentioned who which is the

[00:53:26] Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy book who not how and their teaching but I've read your book

[00:53:33] talentpreneurship really good read if you're listening definitely pick up a copy and the audio

[00:53:41] book is good the physical book is good both are good and but I couldn't agree more it's all

[00:53:48] about the talent of the who so how how do I go from what I see most people being reactive

[00:53:57] with it is as you call it a talentpreneur how do I how do I change that because I think it's

[00:54:03] mindset right you know I'm not when it hurts enough I make a hire if I land another a big

[00:54:09] enough deal or two I make a hire but how do I get out of that kind of reactive mindset

[00:54:16] probably lacking some of the maturity around those two to true talentpreneurship yeah the number

[00:54:23] one thing there because it has a different meaning at different stage of your entrepreneurial

[00:54:29] journey so when I was like a one person shop my need was different and my strategy

[00:54:37] had to be different but I didn't know what I didn't know at that time which which you

[00:54:42] know so but when you're like 10 20 people MSP is different when you're 50 people MSP

[00:54:47] then you're pe-backed two three hundred people MSP so I will just probably break it down into

[00:54:53] like two three segments so if you're a big MSP let's say over 100 people company

[00:54:59] then obviously having like a very strong talent division where your talent capability

[00:55:07] so strong in terms of finding great people developing those people and positioning their

[00:55:15] talents correctly and retaining them with career plans career roadmaps and everything else and

[00:55:22] at that time you're big enough that anyone who is leaving even you and they are in the status

[00:55:29] of rehire creating an alumni community for your company where they're always getting some

[00:55:36] kind of messaging engagement from you that if the grass is not greener on the other side

[00:55:41] they're not like they have that emotion I should have watered that grass rather than coming to

[00:55:48] see this grass then they are already part of your alumni like that's one thing that we can

[00:55:53] learn from universities colleges they they have this alumni program like that's what we do at

[00:55:58] ITBD keeping people with their great people but they just want to try something out we keep

[00:56:03] our doors are open giving them golden ticket and you keeping them part of our alumni community

[00:56:12] and that way you're you're always you know you have that network the talent community is there

[00:56:18] and then the other piece is like so this is like bigger bigger companies like 100 200 people

[00:56:23] MSPs so having a strong talent division having a talent community where it's not like when you

[00:56:30] need them being proactive to build that community with your alumni and also keep adding people

[00:56:35] engaging them through your talent marketing plan because a lot of businesses have sales marketing

[00:56:42] plan to close their ideal customers but they don't have a marketing plan to close their

[00:56:50] ideal future employees so really it could be social it could be you're just showing your

[00:56:56] culture your values how you function where you are where you're going so always working on

[00:57:04] your culture and showing that culture to the world that if this is the good fit

[00:57:09] that we're looking for and always always finding and growing that network right

[00:57:16] and then the like if you look at the middle like let's say 20 30 people 50 people companies

[00:57:21] when you don't have like too many resources in the HR department which is your talent

[00:57:25] department then any meeting that you go to you go to a conference you go to any

[00:57:32] like a church that you go to any part of community that you go to while you are building

[00:57:39] your network always look for great people surround yourself with great people keep

[00:57:44] sharing your vision keep sharing your values keep sharing your mindsets and when when you

[00:57:51] are sharing that message with the universe universe helps you it's just matter of time

[00:57:57] then you will see that a lot of people reach out to you if they lose a job they they're

[00:58:01] looking for an opportunity or they just kind of see you advertising something with your future

[00:58:08] plans and they're like oh this is something where I can be your who I can be your leader

[00:58:13] I can be your person to help you and so it's always like whatever you are doing and

[00:58:19] your people are doing making sure that your culture is strong enough that being making

[00:58:25] that people first culture that you have those evangelists where they are producing referrals

[00:58:33] for you they are looking for more people with the similar mindsets and values and even you as

[00:58:38] a leader when you're going somewhere always keeping your eyes and ears open because your

[00:58:43] brain is looking your ears and eyes will look for what your brain is looking for right so just

[00:58:52] keeping that awareness there and then if you're very small like two people five people ten people

[00:58:57] company you know always you know we have relationships really being intentional about

[00:59:03] knowing yourself who you are what are your mindset values and everything that you stand

[00:59:08] for and then people that you're surrounded with doing business with people in any shape or form

[00:59:15] it could be having someone join you as a partner having someone who wants to work with you in a

[00:59:22] in a you know like full-time person or freelancer or consultant always looking for talent

[00:59:29] in believing that believing in this in the superpowers of people in terms of really knowing

[00:59:37] what your superpower is what their superpower is that getting that compliment complementary

[00:59:42] superpower and positioning that superpower in a way with some direction there that they don't end

[00:59:48] up doing going in a very wrong direction like direction giving them direction to leverage

[00:59:53] their unique ability their superpower to to to do that teamwork with you so as a small

[01:00:01] entrepreneur especially you when you're one you're one but when you add another

[01:00:07] complementary superpower or capability with another individual it's not a two one plus one

[01:00:14] is not two i call it eleven that one and one is eleven and sometimes it's like that talent

[01:00:21] so my uh yeah my partner in life is also part of our business cam and so she joined me when she

[01:00:31] joined you know our like we grew 11x we didn't grow 2x we grew 11x because we combined over

[01:00:38] unique abilities and did some amazing teamwork to create that success i'm curious that's really

[01:00:45] really amazing and guys this is there's this and so much more in sonny kayla's books talent

[01:00:52] entrepreneurship so definitely if you're listening you're going to want to want to read that

[01:00:56] and i'm curious your take sonny on um where you look for maybe unconventional hires in terms

[01:01:05] of you mentioned you're at church you mentioned it there because i see so many people they're

[01:01:08] saying oh man my business is really growing let's say my msp is really growing but you

[01:01:13] know i need i need the four-year degree i need five years experience i needed them to be an l3

[01:01:17] engineer or whatever it is they're looking for proven salesperson or or coo or what have you

[01:01:23] and they don't look outside of the box they're not looking for what i would call

[01:01:26] unconventional people um where do you see that tie into being a talent pin or maybe expanding

[01:01:34] that pool so when what we do is we go to um so i mean i think a lot of hiring success that

[01:01:43] we have had when we were small business from best buy to apple stores to like no matter where

[01:01:50] like people where they had yeah or car rental companies and they're more like a customer

[01:01:55] service customer service so not paying too much attention to in the beginning like okay this

[01:02:02] person comes from the msp industry or experience as long as they had that people skills

[01:02:09] you can teach technical skills so that's like one of the unconventional thinking that we have

[01:02:16] done is like find people where they are to patrick lancione's book like an ideal team

[01:02:23] players i humble hungry smart people if they have a hunger they have ambition they are ready

[01:02:29] to pay their dues and they are they have good mindsets work ethics now they have the hunger

[01:02:36] to learn and grow you can teach them technical skills and if you find someone like from

[01:02:41] probably like apple stores starbucks and best pies like you know like any store that you

[01:02:48] normally go to if these companies have great customer delight programs customer experience

[01:02:57] programs so if they already know that that's like a head start for that person with everything

[01:03:02] else that i mentioned in our like we're in our bigger now as we got bigger so we created our

[01:03:09] talent development division like learning and development division where we have a boot camp

[01:03:14] for to bring in people from colleges universities even there we look for colleges university

[01:03:21] especially for the msp space like if you go to like i cannot go to my son's college

[01:03:26] university cornell and hire for msp i can probably but i think i don't know

[01:03:31] like i look for people where they are good fit for the msp work

[01:03:38] and going to universities colleges especially in what i have seen is another piece i have seen

[01:03:46] especially in philippines and in india the more smaller city that you go to there's less

[01:03:51] opportunity there more hunger and more people will have a lot more loyalty for you when you add

[01:03:57] value to them so you bring them in give them the the opportunity that they can get from

[01:04:04] the their local market but you create that opportunity for them they are a lot more

[01:04:09] longevity loyalty everything comes with that so especially in india philippines we go to like

[01:04:14] they call it a tier one city like manila and new delhi or mumbai and then you have tier two cities

[01:04:24] like tier two two cities are smaller cities and and that's where you people like you find

[01:04:30] people where they're just working so hard but just because of not having access to quality

[01:04:35] opportunities they're not getting rewards for their hard work if you give them rewards

[01:04:41] for the hard work these people are like so loyal and committed and same thing here what i've seen

[01:04:48] is that like you know when i go to for example we have we have a lot of success stories like

[01:04:54] you know hiding from middle of missouri uh like where people are like you know these are

[01:04:59] underserved areas like saint joe missouri jesse james and pony express type of towns

[01:05:06] and kentucky like louisville lexington uh like when you i go to more rural areas and you find

[01:05:15] some hungry people oh man their loyalty their longevity with you their gratitude for you is

[01:05:21] so so it's like 11x where it's like oh man sonny i have never imagined that i could be

[01:05:29] this person so you really you you show them how to be more uh in those towns and give that

[01:05:38] opportunity and especially now in the hybrid workplace you have a better chance to find talent

[01:05:46] from everywhere no matter where they are i mean this is just like some of the strategies or

[01:05:51] thinking that i'm uh i'm sharing uh that what i've seen is that and and also you make a

[01:05:57] bigger impact on a lot of lives when the you kind of create an opportunity in the area where

[01:06:02] that area is underserved yeah and this is something i couldn't agree with you more on

[01:06:07] sonny it's just it's amazing i've found it to be kind of what i call a win win win right it's

[01:06:12] a win for me because i got talent or access to talent i didn't know existed it's a

[01:06:17] definitely a win for them because i know i came from a smaller city and you know there

[01:06:22] just wasn't much opportunity and so they and so that at some point i had this mindset that

[01:06:27] you know these are all of my choices period and so to get access to opportunity that you just

[01:06:33] didn't have is a is a win you know and um you know we've had people that were chefs or worked

[01:06:40] at full foods or just other things like that that have just become amazing players on our

[01:06:45] team and uh i know the the final you know win win win is like you said they are grateful they

[01:06:55] you know in a positive way they come in with like i'm going to like you said 11x i'm gonna

[01:07:01] just i'm gonna i'm gonna upset the bell curve i'm gonna work harder like you were talking about

[01:07:08] with your work ethic so they're gonna come in and work harder and kind of outwork a lot

[01:07:12] of others not everybody but sometimes they're gonna outwork they're gonna out the other thing

[01:07:16] is i've noticed sometimes they're gonna out learn and then finally um i found some of

[01:07:22] the folks like that are more curious i don't have to unteach uh like you said certain

[01:07:30] programs have really good customer service maybe they come with some of that and sometimes

[01:07:34] if you've been at a mediocre msp or or other company and then you join well there's there's

[01:07:41] a lot of uh unteaching that needs to happen before you're ready to deliver on the service

[01:07:46] level that we're going to deliver at and you might have the technical skills but boy it's

[01:07:52] it may be harder to to unteach the uh the the apathy or or the lack of service yeah

[01:08:00] and the biggest impact i have seen when we we started paying a lot more attention to

[01:08:06] to understanding people's ambitions or their dream life and then we started contributing

[01:08:14] to create that dream life that's when the magic happened where your team members give you more

[01:08:20] referral your customer is happy because your team member is happy and they're serving with

[01:08:26] that happiness that yeah so you kind of help them create a bigger future within itbd in our

[01:08:33] case or within your company when you help them create a bigger future their personal vision of

[01:08:40] success understanding is very very important because you might be thinking that you are

[01:08:46] doing adding adding a lot of value to them but they may not it may not be valued to

[01:08:51] to them if you don't understand their ambition you don't understand their dream life

[01:08:56] what it what it includes because success means different thing to different people

[01:09:01] so i think the best lesson i have learned when it comes to talent is that you know show up as

[01:09:06] a leader to understand that person's dream life and then do your best go above and beyond

[01:09:17] to support them with their dream life i love that is from their health career

[01:09:23] relationships legacy point of view unfortunate truth is i think the bar is fairly low

[01:09:29] where people are doing so if you show up and ask this kind of questions i've noticed when i've

[01:09:34] just asked a few of those that they seem almost shocked to to be asked those questions and that

[01:09:40] i would care about anything other than how many widgets you produced or tickets you closed or

[01:09:46] or whatever some kind of business metric which is this is it's important to like your

[01:09:51] whatever your whatever your goals are whatever your kpis are whatever your rocks are still

[01:09:55] important but ask about their dream life what do they care how do you map that to the business

[01:10:00] um is important i've also learned that sometimes exposing them to the business

[01:10:07] and helping them understand how they can drive that because if you want to

[01:10:11] if you want to earn double to pay or triple to pay or something really to support your

[01:10:15] dream life i'm i'm i'm 100 in favor of that but here's what you would kind of need to

[01:10:21] drive value wise to our customers in order to support that and obviously sometimes

[01:10:27] if you know they're not familiar with the way business is working in p&l that can be a little

[01:10:32] bit of a eye opener but it gives them that opportunity they can say okay i'm not willing

[01:10:36] to work that hard or i am and uh and really understand their dream life um i feel like i

[01:10:46] could talk all day so i want to kind of wrap up one more question sonny what is the top

[01:10:53] takeaway you would say for somebody that cares enough about talent and wants to be a talent

[01:10:58] preneur to differentiate help understand uniqueness and what i mean really is if i

[01:11:07] believe which i do so i'll take music if i believe that talent is the differentiator

[01:11:11] uh what stuff do i take what question i ask so that i can begin really being you know living

[01:11:18] your bohawk talentpreneurship and really you know really developing talent or even finding talent

[01:11:25] differently yeah so i know i appreciate that question uh so first of all i you know just

[01:11:31] kind of really being very clear as a leader as an entrepreneur about your own thinking

[01:11:37] in terms of what's your vision do you have that clear vision that one year three years five years

[01:11:46] and so you can use different tools for example the eos is there the the scaling up is there a

[01:11:53] lot of tools are available out there we're involving your key people first of all having

[01:11:59] your own thinking very clear involving inviting people to co-create that vision and then being

[01:12:07] able to clearly articulate that to your team members and you have to say the same thing

[01:12:13] seven times seven different ways until people are sick of listening to that that's when they

[01:12:19] hear it once so like having that vision the purpose like what is that bigger purpose than

[01:12:27] other than just kind of building your business what is the purpose so once you have the vision

[01:12:32] clear the purpose clear you have the values clear and it's kind of really again with that

[01:12:39] that involvement of your core team members then you have your mindsets very clear so then you

[01:12:45] know like what good looks like with culture and vision so number one thing is having so

[01:12:51] much clarity about culture and your vision and then being able to share that in a very very

[01:12:59] clear concise format with your team members now you have a team where they know where

[01:13:07] where we are where we are going how we're going to get there what is our purpose to get there

[01:13:12] what are the mindsets we're going to use to do teamwork what are the values that we're

[01:13:17] going to live while we're having this great journey so it's like one team one goal is very clear

[01:13:23] moving in that direction and enjoying that teamwork day-to-day with the mindsets that you

[01:13:29] because there's alignment and then because once you have a great culture that

[01:13:37] that creates happy customers and then also it invites more employees because of referrals

[01:13:45] more good people come in from your team members and then you have more customers come in because

[01:13:51] you have a great customer service and customers are referring you to other other their friends

[01:13:58] so referable service is there and so basically the one thing if i want to start with is

[01:14:04] really having that clarity and then providing that clarity your to your team building that

[01:14:11] people first culture and then the rest of the magic will happen because at the end of the day

[01:14:18] we are all in people business no matter what we do like we even msp's they're not in tech business

[01:14:24] they are in people business because people are the ones where they are building those solutions

[01:14:30] for managed services and we are paying x amount per hour per engineer and we are adding

[01:14:40] the value creation margin and then giving it to our customer no matter how we invoice them

[01:14:47] so at the end of the day it's always going to be people so if you make your make people first

[01:14:54] culture everything else is going to take care of itself sure sure tell me i know you've got

[01:14:59] you've got it by design you got building live so your life pick something pick one whatever

[01:15:04] you'd like to pick one of the things you're working on and tell us what that is and and

[01:15:10] what is the vision purpose values yeah so uh so overall like we are a we have a talent capability

[01:15:19] which is basically we're a talent company so you look at it by design we build winning teams

[01:15:24] for example for our partners 24 seven teams that are winning teams which is extension of their

[01:15:34] team if we have team gps that's a software that's like talent retention engagement software so it's

[01:15:40] like again talent the third is build it which is developing talent so it's like education

[01:15:46] there with peer groups and the annual conference so that's what we are basically we keep

[01:15:52] expanding we're not striving we keep expanding uh it's more success to significance now

[01:15:59] and now from the purpose value purpose is to build a strong community of peers partners

[01:16:07] and peer partners and strategic partners our colleagues our our partners that we

[01:16:15] that are our customers and our strategic peers our our thought leaders so it's like a community

[01:16:22] of team members of our clients partners and our strategic partners where they come and add

[01:16:29] thought leadership the value that they create so there are three pillars in this itbd building

[01:16:35] which are again people team is people clients are people thought leaders are people so i say

[01:16:41] okay it's people pillars and our purpose is to build a very strong community of like-minded

[01:16:47] colleagues partners and strategic partners third uh i mean some purpose so the vision is always

[01:16:56] expanding right that is expansion always growing wherever future is bigger than our past

[01:17:05] that's that's the number one piece that we kind of really measure our success on

[01:17:10] because rising tide will raise all boats so as it by design is growing everyone is getting

[01:17:16] their career growth and then from values point of view i made it like quite easy because i

[01:17:23] figured it out because it was always hard for people to name values i got so frustrated i'm

[01:17:28] like i'm keep saying this every day by seven times seven different ways method is not working

[01:17:34] so i had to use that pilot thinking actually i was i took some partners to india we were

[01:17:39] going to taj mahal and the guy who's sitting right next to me in the bus as our our msp

[01:17:44] partner he was a pilot i'm like how do you guys remember all these bells and whistles in the plane

[01:17:49] man i can my i i'm having hard time overall remembering all the values and my team members

[01:17:57] how do you how do you take care of all these different functions and he's like we we create

[01:18:03] acronyms so for values we created an acronym called happy happy is the humility accountability

[01:18:09] positivity passion and your community those are like five values so those are the values that we

[01:18:15] use at it by design and when it comes to mindset it's like really collaboratively mindset positive

[01:18:21] focus growing together like always uh like learning or winning never losing in itb and

[01:18:32] and the other one is that rising together and of course people first so those are like mindsets

[01:18:38] teamwork is very collaborative way they listen generously being there for each other

[01:18:44] appreciating and recognizing each other being able to speak straight as well like when like

[01:18:48] we're human beings we will have bothers don't keep it here just speak straight i am no big

[01:18:55] i mean with my title i'm not bigger than anyone else like people even l1 engineers uh

[01:19:01] we're getting close to thousand people company now people have that comfort that they can come to

[01:19:06] sunny and speak straight so they may not like it but still they have the permission to speak

[01:19:11] straight so we use that for teamwork creating that psychological safety at work where people

[01:19:17] have that safe space to to kind of express their feelings in a way that they feel and if

[01:19:24] we can understand that then we can address it and it's really about yeah so that means i don't

[01:19:31] know if i answer your question but that is that is how i think about it by designs culture

[01:19:37] where we are where we are going i love that well for everybody listening this is your opportunity to

[01:19:44] go buy the book talent pernola show by sunny kayla sunny how could i get connected to you

[01:19:51] if i'm listening and i want more i may want to be a client i may want to join your team

[01:19:55] i just may want to know you what what's the best way to get connected

[01:19:59] linkedin or of our website is itbd.net it by design short again acronym itbd.net

[01:20:10] or linkedin the only platform social platform that i am active on is linkedin

[01:20:16] so linkedin is one way then of course you know if you want to meet in person

[01:20:23] september 9th 10th 11th orlando old it nation site that's where our conference is

[01:20:30] and i live in new jersey and i just love meeting people especially when any msp comes to town and

[01:20:36] i'm like hey let me show you the taxi driver way i know all the holes you know like a hole

[01:20:43] in the wall type of food places to like you know like all the secrets of new york city let

[01:20:51] me show you the local way of new york city so i love meeting people if you ever come this

[01:20:57] way ping me on linkedin and we will connect that's awesome thank you for your time and

[01:21:03] thank you for being on msp mindset today sunny thank you thank you thank you thank you damian

[01:21:08] i appreciate you thank you