BONUS EPISODE: 100% Growth, 2 Years Straight... Robert's MSP Success Story

[00:00:00] You know, over time when you're doing these little things day in and day out, you know, and after a year or two of doing that, you realize that you achieved a lot. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're starting to see like the customers come, the orders come in and then you're trying to figure out like what changed? Why is this happening? Right. And then you realize that nothing changed. It's really what you've been working towards for the past, you know, past year, past two years. You know, you continually put the work in of trying to understand what you can do better.

[00:00:33] Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset. I'm super excited today to be with Robert Czwanowski and we are live at the SGM Summit. So Robert, tell me a little bit about the failures. Tell me about what you've learned in your business at the summit.

[00:00:53] Robert Czwanowski So, so the failures largely are some of the times it's you don't know what you don't know, right?

[00:01:02] So here we 100% of the time in my case.

[00:01:06] So, so here we, you know, a few years back where we're spending a tremendous amount of money on marketing and seeing zero, zero results, right? The running joke is that we could have bought a beach house on the Jersey shore and at least we would have had something to show for it.

[00:01:25] Robert Czwanowski What we realized after spending all of that money was that we really didn't have our, our internal processes in place to be able to support scalable growth.

[00:01:43] Robert Czwanowski So we got to a point where, you know, it was, it was, it was a bit of, um, uh, you know, it was, it was good that we didn't get the growth we needed because we just would have not been able to onboard the customers the way we want to be able to support our customers.

[00:01:59] Robert Czwanowski You don't hear that often.

[00:02:01] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:02:02] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:02:02] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:02:03] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:02:04] It's crazy that we spent that money.

[00:02:06] So listen, college is expensive, right?

[00:02:08] Robert Czwanowski Yes.

[00:02:08] Robert Czwanowski So, so we needed, we needed to, you know, we needed to spend the money and we need to come to the realization.

[00:02:14] What we ended up doing was really digging our heels into the dirt, probably for about two years to really refine our processes, our onboarding processes, our service processes, or SLAs, right?

[00:02:28] Just making sure that we had a good, clear handoff from sales into operations for onboarding and then from the onboarding team to the service team, right?

[00:02:38] And, and the way we really sustained ourselves over that time period was to, um, just continually support our customers, know new customers, support our customers, uh, make recommendations, some project work.

[00:02:54] Robert Czwanowski We ended up growing about a hundred percent that year in spite of not.

[00:02:59] Robert Czwanowski A hundred percent?

[00:03:00] Robert Czwanowski In spite of not, we probably onboarded two customers.

[00:03:04] Robert Czwanowski Wow.

[00:03:05] Robert Czwanowski So, yeah, we, we've largely, um, we created a customer matrix.

[00:03:12] These are our customers.

[00:03:13] We had our product stack, our tech stack.

[00:03:17] This is what each customer has in their stack.

[00:03:21] And we went to our customers and had, you know, made recommendations about, uh, the, the products or services that they weren't taking advantage of.

[00:03:30] So that's how we experienced the growth while we were able to really fix our processes and, uh, work on the business.

[00:03:37] Robert Czwanowski So a hundred percent growth is crazy for an MSP period, but especially without marketing really firing.

[00:03:43] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:03:44] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:03:45] Robert Czwanowski Why?

[00:03:45] Robert Czwanowski I want to come back to that, but why was it so important to you to get that right?

[00:03:50] I know there's some people that are just like, Hey, if fast enough growth makes up for mistakes, why did you want to kind of take that time and get the onboarding and service delivery and handoffs?

[00:04:00] Robert Czwanowski Well, well, I mean, the, the simple answer is that, you know, you don't want to onboard new customers and then lose them at the backend.

[00:04:07] Right.

[00:04:07] So, uh, you know, you don't want to have a hole in the boat.

[00:04:10] Right.

[00:04:10] So, uh, but, but the reality is that we really are in a position that we want to help folks and help them with their technology and genuinely want to be a trusted advisor and business partner more so than just being a vendor.

[00:04:24] Yeah.

[00:04:24] Robert Czwanowski Yeah.

[00:04:25] Robert Czwan We don't want to be an IT vendor.

[00:04:26] We want to be a business partner.

[00:04:28] And we have a lot of business conversations along with technology conversations.

[00:04:33] Robert Czwan I'm really interested in the business and what makes them tick so that we can align the technology with the business and the business processes.

[00:04:41] Robert Czwan You said a lot there.

[00:04:42] I couldn't agree more.

[00:04:43] Robert Czwan Yeah.

[00:04:44] Robert Czwan Why is it so important to you?

[00:04:45] I mean, I agree with it, but why?

[00:04:47] There's a lot of people that just, you know, show up and do a bunch of geek speak and sell some wifi or whatever and move on.

[00:04:56] Robert Czwan Yeah.

[00:04:56] Robert Czwan Yeah.

[00:04:56] So, so no geek speak here.

[00:04:58] I mean, one of my, one of the things I'm really good at is explaining things to the CEO or the non-technical person.

[00:05:07] Right?

[00:05:07] So why is it important to me?

[00:05:12] You know, generally just want to help folks.

[00:05:15] Right?

[00:05:15] You know, I have a, outside of technology, have a kind of a philanthropy, you know, position where I help folks that are less fortunate.

[00:05:26] I know I'm blessed.

[00:05:27] And so, so it really is about, it really is about doing the right thing.

[00:05:32] Right?

[00:05:32] Robert Czwan Yeah.

[00:05:33] So what is the, what is the philanthropy?

[00:05:36] Robert Czwan So, you know, I, I work with a nonprofit to raise money that we can help folks in the community.

[00:05:43] For instance, a couple of years ago, we were approached by a local oil company that had some clients that had small children.

[00:05:53] And they had to make a decision if they should put food on the table or have heat in the house.

[00:05:58] So we filled up their oil tanks for the winter.

[00:06:01] Right?

[00:06:02] There was another case where a young family lost their house to a fire and they had a lapse in their insurance.

[00:06:12] So we did some fundraising for them to get them out of a hotel, put a trailer on the site so that, you know, they had a place to live.

[00:06:21] You know, we had electricians and plumbers come move the well and the septic to the trailer.

[00:06:28] So we did drives to get clothing and things like that.

[00:06:33] So, so those are the kind of things I do outside of technology.

[00:06:37] Yeah.

[00:06:37] There's something there, Robert, that you really care about the people you're working with.

[00:06:43] So you took all this time.

[00:06:45] How long did it take you to feel like you got this figured out in terms of delivery and handoff?

[00:06:51] And so it's always a work in progress.

[00:06:54] Right.

[00:06:54] So, you know, it's, it's, we've been at it for just that component for the past two or three years.

[00:07:03] Right.

[00:07:04] But there's always something to learn.

[00:07:06] We're constantly surveying our clients.

[00:07:09] You know, we're hearing from our clients that through our onboarding processes and our project management that, you know,

[00:07:18] they're not worried about losing, you know, any productivity from either IT upgrades going sideways or having other vulnerabilities.

[00:07:30] You know, it could be a cyber breach, could be just hardware that's at a warranty, you know.

[00:07:34] So they're really comfortable with our, our processes and project management.

[00:07:39] Interesting.

[00:07:41] So you've spent two or three years getting that dialed in.

[00:07:45] And is that still something that you've always can be approved, but now is it time to accelerate the sales and marketing?

[00:07:54] We're absolutely accelerating the sales and marketing.

[00:07:57] Yes, for sure.

[00:07:58] So, so we've, you know, we've, we've flipped that switch about a year ago, you know, to, to really start with exponential growth and, you know,

[00:08:07] and adding new clients and really pressure testing our processes.

[00:08:11] So what's working?

[00:08:13] Um, so the processes are working and what we're in the process of doing now is automating, right?

[00:08:20] So, uh, you know, right now it's, it's, it's largely a manual process for folks to manage the process as our clients go through onboarding to, uh, you know,

[00:08:32] to service from sales to onboarding to service, uh, and then being maintained.

[00:08:36] So, so now we're in a process of automating, uh, that's our big initiative for 2024 and it'll spill over into 2025, but, uh, automation is our big push at the moment.

[00:08:48] Okay.

[00:08:49] So that's just, if I understand that it's the actual processes in, in not just some RMM tooling that a lot of people think of when they think of automation.

[00:08:58] Right.

[00:08:58] Okay.

[00:08:59] Exactly.

[00:09:00] Exactly.

[00:09:01] Interesting.

[00:09:03] So on the marketing side, now that you're trying to pressure test, what, tell me about that journey.

[00:09:10] And, uh, is, is that starting to work?

[00:09:12] Um, it is starting to work, but you know, as anybody that's done or invested any time or money into marketing, you know, they know that it's a long game, right?

[00:09:21] And that there's no quick hits, um, you know, maybe you get lucky here and there, but for the most part, you were, you're just being consistent, uh, along the way.

[00:09:32] So, you know, we've transitioned from some of the old traditional marketing with LinkedIn messaging and email campaigns to, uh, you know, to more of like speaking engagements and trade shows and being at the places where our prospects are.

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[00:10:26] So maybe this is your answer.

[00:10:28] What's, what doesn't work?

[00:10:30] Tell me about all that big investment you made to kind of go to college or could have bought a beach house.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:37] So a lot of, um, a lot of very cold emails, um, you know, hiring firms to do that.

[00:10:47] Uh, a lot.

[00:10:48] And in conjunction with that was a lot of very cold LinkedIn connections and LinkedIn messaging that, you know, those are the kind of things that weren't working.

[00:10:57] Uh, we've outsourced, uh, telemarketing firms, you know, that we've paid, you know, tens of thousands of dollars over the, you know, course of 60 to 90 days to make a bunch of phone calls and appointments that yielded nothing.

[00:11:12] Right.

[00:11:12] So, so, so those traditional marketing things were just not, um, producing any results for us.

[00:11:19] You know, we tried changing the messaging and doing, you know, AB testing and, you know, so, so I really feel like we gave it, um, I'm not a marketing person.

[00:11:30] So all I could do is rely on what the outsourced folks were telling me, but yeah, I feel like we did what we were supposed to do.

[00:11:36] Tech guy, you know, right.

[00:11:38] Started as a tech guy.

[00:11:39] Now, now I need to be a business guy, but I totally get the not being a marketer.

[00:11:43] Right.

[00:11:43] And so, you know, it's interesting.

[00:11:44] You have to focus so much on these processes and the pressure test them.

[00:11:47] And now maybe you don't have to be the expert, but you have to try to discern the marketing and figure those pieces out.

[00:11:54] Well, it's important to understand what, you know, your costs, right?

[00:11:58] So what does it cost for a prospect?

[00:12:01] What does it cost for a new client?

[00:12:03] So, you know, so you just, yeah, you have to be, I mean, you just have to understand what's working and what's not and what the cost is.

[00:12:12] Yeah.

[00:12:13] I would say most of the MSPs I talk to, you say, I don't know, I get a few year per referrals.

[00:12:19] And so I don't need to know, or I don't know because I only get a couple a year, you know, via referrals.

[00:12:25] So if you're really spending money, then you better understand your costs.

[00:12:29] It's more than a couple of year for us.

[00:12:31] Yeah.

[00:12:31] That's for sure.

[00:12:32] Yeah.

[00:12:32] Tell me about the growth.

[00:12:34] Tell me what, what's, what do you see?

[00:12:37] So since we've, you know, since we have flipped that switch back to, you know, we're going to start onboarding new customers and we've had 152% growth.

[00:12:47] You know, this year we're looking for, you know, another hundred or 200% for sure.

[00:12:52] So, so, you know, high level growth, but we are in a very scalable position at the moment.

[00:12:59] So, you know, we've done everything we need to do on the business and we're continuing to refine that.

[00:13:06] You know, we're just, we have our eye on the prize and as long as we support our customers, you know, we're, we're, we're doing what we set out to do.

[00:13:15] But how many folks do you have on the team?

[00:13:17] 12 at the moment.

[00:13:18] We're continually hiring.

[00:13:20] So, you know, we'll probably add three by the end of the year.

[00:13:24] So, I mean, you must be doing something really well.

[00:13:28] If you had a hundred percent year over year when you weren't investing in marketing now at 152%.

[00:13:33] And just to hear you say a hundred to 200% when most of Ms. Pease I'll talk to you are hoping for 15.

[00:13:40] Okay.

[00:13:40] Percent growth.

[00:13:41] So you're doing something very different whether you realize it or not.

[00:13:45] I'm curious, like what, what are, what's one of the unlocks or one of the things that you were like, ah, once I learned that, I understood.

[00:13:52] I, you know, I, I think it's more, um, it was our intention to have, um, significant organic growth.

[00:14:03] And so, you know, it's not happening by accident.

[00:14:07] And when you, you know, over time, when you're doing these little things day in and day out, you know, and after a year or two of doing that, you realize that you achieved a lot.

[00:14:16] And then all of a sudden, you know, you're starting to see like the customers come, the orders come in.

[00:14:21] And, and then you're trying to figure out like, what, what changed?

[00:14:24] Why, why is this happening?

[00:14:26] Right.

[00:14:26] And, uh, and then you realize that nothing changed.

[00:14:29] It's really what you've been working towards for the past, you know, past year, past two years.

[00:14:33] You know, you just continually put the work in of trying to understand what you can do better.

[00:14:38] Um, you know, really, really trying to drill down on what in terms of sales and marketing works.

[00:14:44] Uh, the conversations we're having with customers and the conversations we're having with our prospective customers.

[00:14:51] Right.

[00:14:51] So we're not always talking about technology.

[00:14:53] We're having business conversations.

[00:14:55] You know, I'm interested in knowing what their goals are, what their growth plans are.

[00:15:00] Um, you know, what their management style is.

[00:15:03] I want to learn about the culture in their organization.

[00:15:06] So, so that again, we want to be able to align the technology with the business and the business processes.

[00:15:11] Right.

[00:15:12] So, so that's all important to us.

[00:15:15] You know, so when I ask a, uh, you know, a client or a prospective client, you know, what are your, some biggest,

[00:15:21] what are some of the biggest challenges you're facing?

[00:15:24] And they say in technology and I say no in business.

[00:15:28] Right.

[00:15:28] You know, so, so, you know, I think those are probably some of the differentiators for us,

[00:15:35] but it doesn't feel like a differentiator because it's just natural.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:40] Maybe natural to you, not natural to others.

[00:15:42] I love the part about being intentional because you said nothing changed.

[00:15:46] I'm going to disagree.

[00:15:47] I feel like you changed a lot based on what you're telling me.

[00:15:50] It maybe it was a gradual change with a lot of incremental improvements.

[00:15:54] Sure.

[00:15:54] To, to, to encourage that a level of growth, um, takes a lot of change and a lot of, it's

[00:16:03] a long journey, right?

[00:16:03] It's easy.

[00:16:04] I know in my own experience, it's really easy to give up.

[00:16:07] Yes.

[00:16:08] And say, well, this isn't working.

[00:16:10] Right.

[00:16:11] Like a lot of the telemarketers you talked about, like 60 or 90 days, you're going to see

[00:16:14] all these things, all these appointments.

[00:16:15] And I think we all want, at least I do that shorter term gratification, but it takes that

[00:16:22] long intentional investment.

[00:16:24] Um, I want to understand how you're having these business conversations because so many

[00:16:33] MSPs is they're just, they're not good at it.

[00:16:36] You know, I came from a tech background now do speak business, but boy, when I was first

[00:16:41] doing this, it was maybe I would ask like, what are your plans or how much are you going

[00:16:45] to grow?

[00:16:46] And then they would tell me, and then I would not do it to do after that.

[00:16:50] Right.

[00:16:50] Right.

[00:16:50] So how, if, you know, if I'm listening to this as an MSP owner and, uh, tell me how you've

[00:17:00] made that transition, how are you able to have that business talk and tie it in?

[00:17:05] Um, I mean, that's a great question.

[00:17:07] Again, I think it's, it's, to me, it just makes sense.

[00:17:11] Right.

[00:17:11] So, um, everybody wants to talk about technology and how smart they are and, um, you know, the

[00:17:19] acronyms that are in this industry.

[00:17:23] And, um, one of the first things I said when we sat down and started talking is one of, one

[00:17:28] of the things that I'm really good at is having conversations with CEOs because they don't get

[00:17:33] in the weeds on the technology.

[00:17:36] Right.

[00:17:36] I, I really want to understand them in their business.

[00:17:42] So is for folks that maybe that doesn't come naturally, what would you say, you know, questions

[00:17:47] to open up the CEO?

[00:17:49] Right.

[00:17:49] I think maybe if you're listening as an MSP owner, you're already, you're already getting

[00:17:53] like, okay, don't just be acronym and geek speak, try to talk business.

[00:17:58] But if I'm not used to it, if I'm still, you know, breaking the ice on those conversations

[00:18:03] and I'm asking them maybe about growth or what's their intention, but then I don't know

[00:18:07] where to go from there.

[00:18:08] Like, yeah.

[00:18:08] What keeps them up at night?

[00:18:10] What, what kind of challenges are they having?

[00:18:11] What are their business challenges?

[00:18:13] Right.

[00:18:13] So, and their challenges may be in marketing or their challenges may be in, in their business

[00:18:20] processes.

[00:18:20] Right.

[00:18:21] So, um, and you know, it's easy to share some of the things that you have done in your

[00:18:27] business to fix some of the, you may have some had had some of the same issues.

[00:18:31] Right.

[00:18:32] So, yeah.

[00:18:33] Or, you know, just, just, it's, it's a good conversation from, you know, from CEO to CEO

[00:18:39] to, you know, to talk about some of the things that work, some of the things that don't work.

[00:18:43] Right.

[00:18:43] You never know what you're going to learn.

[00:18:46] Um, or, you know, you may be able to offer some advice.

[00:18:49] Yeah.

[00:18:50] Well, let's use the first example.

[00:18:52] You said marketing.

[00:18:53] Cause I know I go in there and I'm like, oh, what are your challenges?

[00:18:55] And then they're like, well, my number one challenge is really marketing.

[00:18:58] Right.

[00:18:59] Now I don't know what to do.

[00:19:00] What do I do?

[00:19:01] I just walk out.

[00:19:02] I have experience in marketing, so we're just going to talk about it.

[00:19:06] Right.

[00:19:06] So it's, it's been a crawl on my side as well.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:09] Right.

[00:19:09] So, you know, so, okay.

[00:19:11] So what's not working?

[00:19:12] I could tell them what hasn't worked for me, you know, so we can, we can have that conversation

[00:19:16] and eventually there may, you know, we may come around to how we can leverage some technology

[00:19:21] to, uh, support their, their marketing efforts.

[00:19:25] Right.

[00:19:25] Or, um, you know, to support tracking their marketing, right?

[00:19:29] Their, uh, what did it cost you for a, uh, a marketing qualified lead and then to convert

[00:19:37] that to a sales qualified lead and to convert that to a meeting and then to convert that

[00:19:41] to a proposal and then convert that to a client.

[00:19:44] Yes.

[00:19:45] Right.

[00:19:45] So, so we can, you know, we can have those conversations for sure.

[00:19:50] Well, I love what you just said, right.

[00:19:51] You, without saying these words, it's giving value first is what I heard at least.

[00:19:58] And, um, what I love about what you just said is I think too many times I've said, well,

[00:20:04] I've got to be the subject matter expert.

[00:20:06] Right.

[00:20:07] And I don't know if you'd say you're a subject matter expert in marketing.

[00:20:11] I'm not a subject matter expert in marketing.

[00:20:15] But what I love about it, Robert, is you put in the hours, the blood, sweat and tear and

[00:20:20] the dollars and all the things so that you can relate to another CEO.

[00:20:26] So I would challenge to anybody watching this and listening to this to say, listen, even

[00:20:31] if you don't feel like you really know marketing or culture or hiring or other things, uh, you're

[00:20:38] making those investments.

[00:20:39] We're still figuring it out just like they're figuring out.

[00:20:41] Right.

[00:20:42] So I love, it sounds to me like you're able to bond over that, uh, talk about some of the

[00:20:48] decisions you've made and why you made them.

[00:20:50] Sure.

[00:20:51] You may be able to share.

[00:20:52] Here's a couple of things that are working for me.

[00:20:53] But to me, what's more interesting is, and sometimes more valuable is when you tell me,

[00:20:58] here's the things that just were a great way to get rid of extra cash or.

[00:21:02] Yeah.

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:03] Right.

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:04] If you want to blow it, do this.

[00:21:05] Yeah.

[00:21:06] Right.

[00:21:06] For sure.

[00:21:09] Um, college education is expensive.

[00:21:11] Right.

[00:21:12] So, uh, that just, it is what it is.

[00:21:15] And, you know, you have to know when to pivot, right.

[00:21:18] You know, the seven words of a dying company, that's the way we've always done it.

[00:21:21] Right.

[00:21:22] So, uh, the definition of insanity, you know, do the same thing over and over and expect a

[00:21:27] different result.

[00:21:28] Yeah.

[00:21:28] Right.

[00:21:29] So, you know, if it's not working change, right.

[00:21:32] Do, do something different.

[00:21:33] Yeah.

[00:21:34] Uh, just because you've always done it this way, even if it works, right.

[00:21:37] You know, don't be closed minded there may or probably is a better way to do it.

[00:21:41] With all the change that you're doing, how do you see that wrapping up and how do you

[00:21:45] help your team deal with all the change?

[00:21:47] So, uh, largely culture, right?

[00:21:50] So, you know, we have our core values and we review our values and culture with our team.

[00:21:57] We have what we call a core value assessment tool.

[00:22:00] And, um, each one of our values is defined.

[00:22:02] We review that with our team and, um, you know, we get there.

[00:22:07] Feedback, if they're on board, not on board, or if it's something that they need improvement

[00:22:11] in, um, and, and if they need improvement, we help them with the improvement, right?

[00:22:17] So, you know, just to make sure that they're on board with what, you know, what our values

[00:22:21] and what our mission is.

[00:22:23] So, so, uh, so those are some of the changes that we use to help drive our employees to

[00:22:28] change.

[00:22:29] But, um, it, we hire for values as well.

[00:22:34] And, and we hire, um, typically higher level, uh, folks as opposed to a lot of tier one

[00:22:41] guys that were constantly training.

[00:22:44] So.

[00:22:44] Perfect.

[00:22:45] Uh, I want to ask you so many more questions.

[00:22:48] Okay.

[00:22:48] But you've taken your time and thank you for this gift to take your time live at the SGM

[00:22:54] Summit to talk with me about this.

[00:22:56] Um, so, uh, thank you for that gift and tell folks who are listening, MSP owners, whoever

[00:23:03] it is, how could they find you connect with you on social or your website?

[00:23:08] Just go ahead and tell us how to connect you and find you.

[00:23:10] So certainly they can, uh, connect with me on LinkedIn.

[00:23:13] Uh, you know, my name is Robert Choynowski.

[00:23:16] Uh, they can search me out on our website and I have a Calendly link on our website.

[00:23:22] It is, uh, seaglasstechnology.com.

[00:23:26] Uh, they can certainly send an email to robert at seaglasstechnology.com.

[00:23:31] I'd be happy to respond to that as well.

[00:23:33] Um, I'm, I'm easy guy to find.

[00:23:35] I definitely don't hide.

[00:23:36] Right.

[00:23:36] So, uh, there's, you know, a lot of ways to get ahold of me.

[00:23:41] So LinkedIn website, uh, or just shoot me an email.

[00:23:44] I love it.

[00:23:45] Not only LinkedIn website, but you know, to being open and willing just to, to have a conversation

[00:23:50] by dropping you an email.

[00:23:51] If, if there's a, if there's somebody out there that just has questions and wants to expand

[00:23:56] the conversation, no strings attached, happy to chat.

[00:24:00] I love that.

[00:24:00] For sure.

[00:24:01] If you're listening, take advantage of it.

[00:24:03] I've got so many more questions I could ask you.

[00:24:05] Thanks again for taking your time today, Robert.

[00:24:07] Yep.

[00:24:08] Appreciate you having me.

[00:24:09] Thank you.