From $2M to $23M: How to Handle Growth at Your MSP, with Greg Browning (MSP Titan #5)

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And some people think that, oh, just I either own most of the company and I can't be a COO or a CTO for this company.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, you can't. Just your share ownership doesn't define that you have to be the top at the chain.

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And if anything, there may be a day where I say, I'm not the best CTO to grow this company.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You hire a CTO to do this job. Like it's any job can be fulfilled. You've got to find out where you provide the most value in growth.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset. Today I got the pleasure of speaking with Greg Browning at single point global.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Not only has he won 5,000, 6 times, not only is he number 24 on Syrians list of fastest growing MSPs.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But today we talk about how he went from 2M to 11M with most of those years without a salesperson.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And then a following year added 13M in revenue.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: If any of this is interesting, you're not kind of want to miss out on our conversation today.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't been there so you grew the company from 2.2M in 2014 to 10.9M in 2018.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that right?

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no. We were essentially, yeah, I'd have to go back to the 2014 ones.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean essentially by 2019, we were 10.2M in dollar company.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And then by the end of that year of 2019, we ended up being a $23M company.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we started off the year at 10.2M and ended by 23.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was obviously a skyrocket to our revenue, right?

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And we were had a one big contract and that's obviously dangerous, right?

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Because one big contract being 50% of your revenue.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the things that they're like, whoa, you were never supposed to do that.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: That is scary.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was, we had the team to deliver.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was mainly a big hardware refresh for our customer.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We're placing all their routers and switches.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: An infrastructure building out data center.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And really deploying a lot of core equipment across 12 locations.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And it took some time.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was a five year contract.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: We had to go to different sites at different times.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was great.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Even it was great that year.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Profits were great.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: We are all jazzed up by all the stuff that we were going to do over the next four years.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the reality hits, right?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Like all of a sudden you go from 10 to 23 and then you're like, okay, next year is a whole new number, right?

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You can only replace so much equipment each year.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But you're also, it's going to start going down.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to have a good sales team to now push it right back up, right?

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So each year our sales team was able to do a really good job at bringing in new contracts.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So we brought in new customers and new clients every year.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So even though our one-time revenue was falling with this client as the more we were completing the projects.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Reoccurring revenue was going up over the years.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So we went from literally over lifespan of four years where one client was 50% of our revenue.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was one time revenue which isn't really good revenue, right?

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just replacement of infrastructure.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But between the managed services with that client as well as new clients that we were bringing in.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We were able to maintain that kind of $23 million top line revenue.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Over the years. So to where now in 2024 we're back to 90% reoccurring revenue, and only 10% one-time revenue.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And that client's down to around five or six percent of total revenue versus 50 four years ago.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So the dynamics of all that and correcting correction and making sure that we were coming out at the end of healthy looking MSP when it comes to the SLI index.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And things that you're supposed to follow.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We ended up coming out. Okay.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I go and pushing through and continuing to find more ways actually get some more one-time revenue back, right?

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Like 90-10's a good number but SLI says it should be 80-20.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So 20% one-time revenue and 80% reoccurring revenue.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And typically if they say if you're finding underneath 20%, it's because you're not engaging enough of your existing clients to fix projects and things that they have.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, we hopefully that's not true in our team. We believe we are talking to our clients and doing those things but that's currently where we stand.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. I want to pack a couple things because I love the reality of this right as an owner myself as a former MSP.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not supposed to take on a client to tap or win more than half your revenue.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you can deliver and deliver well, identify anybody to say no.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like he's supposed to and doing are very different.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And the other thing is sure, you know, Paul Dippel is amazing and then SLI is amazing and there's nothing I can say negative.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, would you rather have recurring? Absolutely.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, it's also if the margin's there. I don't know that's a bad revenue.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You're still or growing revenue, adding value, proving yourself to an ultimate.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like a pretty substantial opportunity.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, I'll be saying that as we get, I at least I do all speak for you Greg.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But I get so caught up in sometimes these benchmarks.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've got to be 80, 20 in my managed versus my project or I've got to get all the recurring revenue and no very little project or sort of one off revenue or things like that.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously we want to understand where we, where we are and where we want to go.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think there's some of the missed opportunities that are front of us because we didn't fit into our little box.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your take on that? Well, I think it's it.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So there is some risks like with that.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously not just the financial risks and the image risks and things like that.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's also, I think SLI helps at least keep people on a line of a trajectory.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean you have to follow it every time to your point, right?

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But it does.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the things that would have been great to know back then and what it would have been really good to know if COVID was just going to be a thing.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so what I'm going to do is to figure out how to reinvest properly.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So when we got that money, I could have just taken it back and all the board members got a nice dividend and a great payday, right?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But we were on a scale and growing pretty substantially for the couple years prior to that as an MSP that we were like, okay, we're going to reinvest majority of it.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Over the years it was building out new divisions, hiring new managers, improving new product lines and it kind of goes into that risk of when you get these large clients and it's very important on how you use that revenue because if you reinvest too much.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: There are substantial risks if it goes away, right?

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: There are things you have to consider and I did not consider back then as that revenue starts to fall off or you don't get those renewals on some of these large contracts.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's impactful to the business if you reinvest too much in and we were back then on that rocket ride, like yeah, we're going to keep going and then and then COVID hit and it's a lot of the reinvestment and things that we were doing.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We were now figuring out okay, I got like a hundred thousand dollars a month of inventory of circuits.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to reflipped because companies just went out of business and oh the way we were selling that we were growing as fast as we were.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We can't sell that way anymore.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: No one was answering the phones.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So it was it put a definitely a bender into where we thought we would be right now and where we ended up.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's I think just to circle back to that, it's definitely important on how you reinvest those profits and to not go too crazy.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, bonus the team take a dividend do some things that you don't use back into the business because if you do too much and you've run into thing like we did with COVID.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it was a risk like we started losing profitability because as we were not selling where we were going to, but we were hiring to that it changed a lot of things in the business and.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's taken almost a couple years to adjust that and continue to save as many people as I could to continue to ensure that we were set up for growth and when we started catching back up and COVID was gone and we were getting those contracts back in.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd say it's it's good definitely you don't have to follow S.I. but in the end it's also very important that you don't go crazy with some of these larger contracts that you reinvest too much into the business because while it can it has its own risks and you never know when churns going to hit you especially with all the PE stuff that's happening and and you could be doing great for a client for many years and all of a sudden new ownership new leadership.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's like it didn't matter how good you were this new person has their own team or their own MSP or just wants to change things completely different because they don't know you from a hole in the wall and they can swap throughout just like that so.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody it's not you can't you don't can't feel like you're an invincible MSP that will have the contract forever anymore because in reality with how efficient we've gotten on everybody is improving and adding on and bringing on new clients.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We can renew or move other MSPs within 60 days like it and it doesn't mean you can't do it for anybody else so.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely important to ensure that you have a healthy bottom line not just a healthy top line.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like there was a hard one lesson there.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And the reason I wanted to highlight that is you know of course, you know it's amazing that you made it to the top 500 and the fastest 150 and all these accolades and six something six time in five thousand.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is amazing but what part of what one I was kind of tell here is while well it's amazing there's risk with some of the growth right I think everybody goes man if I were you are at have everything made.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And and if you ever get there it's not always maybe these is it sounds.

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[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk about from what I could tell Greg correct me from wrong.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You kind of came up as a technical guy like the typical MSP so you're a server engineer and you're this and that and other roles before you are writing single point is that right.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely just like any most MSPs were starting up you're doing a lot of the work right like doing almost everything in every division.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so I definitely grew up tech didn't go to college or any of those things literally just started working right out of high school so and working straight for IT companies.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the thing on on try to unpack and understand how does the how how does somebody with the technical bend which is usually great at technical and hiring and managing engineers and usually you know.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Great with the clients but not usually great on the sales side how in the world did you manage this crazy growth rate from 2.2 and 2014 to 10.9 and 2018 and I think you didn't hire until 2016 somebody in sales so for a lot of the years on that growth you're literally it for sales is that right.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no it's me trying to work out how to build a sales team because as you grow eventually you got to keep I think of the small business mentality right first of you doing everything and then eventually you starting getting pieces off that of view to gain that tree if you will and.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Where I needed to continue to focus for better growth was sales so I was doing well at selling I was able to have a lot of connections talking with clients over the history of doing tech for many years I had a lot of connections.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't nervous going into a room and talking to people and doing a lot of those networking events and literally that's still one of our best sales strategies today is going to every conference and networking event that our customers would be going to.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And some of these award shows like some of the award shows that we've been going to that aren't MSP specific are networking opportunities for other companies that are growing and need your services so.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It worked but then eventually it was like okay we want to continue to grow faster right and this is where we needed to have the right people on the right seats if you will and I needed to get a CRO or sales strategy.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I was a person in line that can grow that like I wasn't a sales force person I never wanted to go into it all the I was doing paper contracts for literally the first 10 years of this business if not longer.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Just getting a med because I was like I when it come to connect to myself didn't even know what that existed.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I sales force was like not something I did not any passion of going into.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I looked at other CRMs and it just it was just now I'm just going back to the paper signature and meet with client shaken hands and and scanning it afterwards.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't scale right you need to get a sales team you need to be able to get more people to sell and.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So I went through a couple different sales people for a year to try to figure it out and then hired a guy I went to high school with name Robert Leneer and he's been one of my best hires for that organization ever.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He's been growing the sales side continuously.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And meeting all kinds of challenges the COVID challenges the growth challenges changing our home marketing strategy from.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That selling circuits to then selling MSP work because we were selling a lot of circuits as almost like a Trojan horse.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: To get into a company because they were small and transactional and then going to know well that's that's can't nobody wants circuits anymore after COVID like it's not a thing.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: They're all meeting the office not needing new circuits for offices so we had to go in with something else and so we learned to sell like almost every other MSP of selling help best first and cyber security and and those things so.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: He dramatically changed the ability for us to sell we were hitting large quotas with a small team.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Only like three to four people at any given time with three to 3.5 million dollar quotas each year and annual contract value so they were just killing it and we were didn't have a turn problem we were continuing to new clients and.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So let me that's that's a lot let me unpack some of that I want to go back a little bit because I've struggled with this and I think a lot of us do.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: When did you realize you were that bottleneck because it's a lot of that founder said sale selling and of course if you're like me and like a lot others you're here somebody.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And you throw them a leave list to tell them to go the chamber commerce or you do this or that and then you know you have adequately prepared them and then they don't work and you're like some MSP's over with you've hard half a dozen.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Sales people that didn't work and then you end up with this like I'm the only one that can do this so.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_03]: When did you let me just start with that first part like when did you realize that was.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_03]: What what you need you to do.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think I was still figuring out as I said I went through a couple people prior to him and learning what I liked and didn't like and what we could do and obviously results it's it's really to manage a sales manager it's easy right like it's quota.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And what are you doing how are you doing to that quota. So it's not as hard to run a sales manager as it is for sales manager run their team.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think because my higher had history of running sales teams prior and is a previous work.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: He already had that capability of managing to the team and knowing what numbers needed for do so and how to go through sales people and get the right ones.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of that I think I just got lucky with right because.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it didn't take too many people to find the right one and when he came in.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: He was able to make the right hires underneath the theme and continue to just turn in revenue to create contracts and.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't put a lot of boundaries around that like I was just like look you do you and you I'm not going to you sell the way you sold sell and we'll be just fine.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And what was your expectation when he came in that he would be the closer in carrier quota.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And then later, but team and like I'm going to travel one and then yeah, no, I mean even though he.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, you plan to build a team.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even though he ran sales he had to carry the back to like what almost every MSP when they hire somebody even if they're in a senior unless you've gotten money and can grow out of team quickly.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You're everybody's carrying the back like everybody is doing sales.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Leeds are coming from referrals and everybody in the organization friends of their friends like it's coming from everywhere right and.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's everybody's hands on deck and we are still that day like he even though he's running a sales team he'll still work deals and meet people and run with with orders just because we are a little busy right now and when it comes up no matter.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's I think I look into a lot of my leadership that it doesn't matter what position you are every now and then we're all going to have to jump back in in some way and help each other out in order to get men but pull back out right like fine ways to get us back out.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's important, especially with growth and growth plans that sometimes it.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Unexpected sales happen and everybody needs to jump in and make sure we push through and and but have a strategy to get back out.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So how long did you.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Did he go before building a team did this was this first thing to build on a team was it to start closing some deals after call back it was I'm I believe it was just him for a while and then as he started spinning up more sales he then got to hire a couple more people.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Since you've been through this besides getting lucky I don't know how to replicate that part of the with a high school friend but since you've been through this and so many of us including me have struggled through this.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I know I've talked to so many of these they just they have completely unrealistic expectations right I'm going to talk to that.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_03]: They throw them out they did lead list and non exist in our outdated to your end and tell them to go to the chamber or used to be.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to open up the phone book and call and baiting myself using those words but you know there's there's modern tooling now but like.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying you can't use this right there's there's about there's validity there but but they're set up seem to like for for failure day one and and it seems like a lot of them also kind of unrealistic.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they don't understand ACV and maybe a realistic quota.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And the reality is they're right they're in investment you know there the other the other means match I see is like I want them cash flow positive by month.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: One or two and I'm like that's that's just not going to happen right so.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_03]: What would you say for somebody that's.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_03]: You know doing found a lead sales wondering about that trying to make that transition you know what should they based on what you've gone through even if they get lucky.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Using your words what what to the expect.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so I had a MSP hit me up on LinkedIn.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Less than a month ago and he was reaching out it's like look I've seen you've been successful I have some questions can help me out and I'm like sure so I had a call with him and and part of that got into the sales parties look on run in my own MSP trying to figure out how to grow sales and what can I do.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of this is what I've told him was coming just through the same strategy and success robber's been able to present here and.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of it is there's there's emphasis and again my strategy or what work for us may not work for everyone so I'm not saying this is the key to win.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely think it's based on people execution right partners and all those things but.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people get sucked up in the digital marketing strategy.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You got to send a thousand emails and you got to update LinkedIn every day and you got to do this and got to do that and that may work for your market may not like it you may be able to spend five grand a month in Google and get a good return you may not like I think it's important to understand that no market is going to have the smoking gun right like it's.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You can use every strategy there's lots of methodologies and you just got to maybe sometimes fail until you don't right like it's you have that oh my I'm going to try digital marketing well we tried it for six or seven months that didn't work.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially in Northern Virginia there are lots of people who own that that market place in Google for MSP or help desk or any of those things.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So we couldn't go there we tried emailing and digital marketing and that wasn't working didn't like a lot of the content found it was a lot to manage but that could work I mean it did it's really depends on the market and.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Where we found is working was actually what we were doing before COVID but it didn't start working until recently was just going back and using the phones again.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We had an internal BDR was really good at getting people on the phone getting people interested and.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier when they work for you right because they're you show up to the desk every day you can work with them you could help on sales calls and find one through and wrong you're more engaged than an outsourced BDR company right.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's but with an outsourced BDR company they're more opportunities they're a little more affordable.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But how you engage with them also matters if you're just hiring them and then not working with them going through their calls listening to what they're doing right or wrong.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Engaging with them circling back on the leads that they brought and saying why they're good or what they're not good with circling to what is a good lead and what is not like you got to hold to them accountable to what you say is a lead like if you don't work with this.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Dennis aren't a lead just you can reject the lead that's not a good lead for you like you should say no that's not yours or if you're not good with finance if you realize that a finance company is probably too high risk for you don't accept it and then they have to go get another one.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think some of those things is making sure that when you partner up like an outsourced BDR even internal one is identifying what a lead is to you by and a lot of that comes to okay what is your target customer profile we've all heard TCP before.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And identifying what that is and once you have that the leads that you're getting should be applying to that and if you just continue to accept leads that don't apply to that from elsewhere's BDR companies you're not doing yourself a favor you're just hoping that somebody that you're not good at selling to will buy for you.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And results like that all work.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, nobody's trying to manage this helps team knows it's not easy it's those are real skill there and BDR as well right they can absolutely work and you think in this day and age when I say you not you but like anybody listening.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're like making calls sound very old school but it still works especially the less of the others that are doing it when everybody's email inbox is full or.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they're not searching on Google because you know they don't know that they have this issue or this problem or this opportunity exists I love that you're kind of digging one other's ag or taking a different perspective and.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not that it's unheard of but I think there are a lot of people that would lead you to believe you know this light headlines like.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool calling is dead or you know just things like that don't work anymore and you know.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_03]: The a lot of clicks for for all the reasons you'd expect.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's really market driven I think it's really depends on what market you're in what's going to work and.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And having the right partner in that market to do that and it's if you think just giving a company money and not helping them grow.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It and to close deals and how what they're doing right or doing wrong and that you can just let it go and leads are just going to come in that's you're never going to be successful with an outsource BDR.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: The same with the source one if you're not working with that person every day on what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong and how to grow your leads aren't going to come in it's not.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I can now go focus on this because this is taking care of now.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It takes massaging it takes work it takes figuring out what's working and what's not and pushing that forward so.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01]: To your point is like yeah, your leads aren't going to come in month one or month two hopefully they start coming in by month three and then you've got a 60 to 90 day close cycle of those.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is opportunities that you were able to just now talk to and say they wanted to quote and a lot of those will still be under contract.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you got to wait until that happens so you then you got to follow them and keep up with them.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a it's a whole cycle and it's not just yep I'm going to pay this company and I'd leave it going to come in and then I'm good I can do the rest.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like somebody listening hurt but they needed to hear right there right you can't you know you're not going to get a ROI and two or three months on a new sales hire for example.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_03]: The only reason I say that is a lot of misbees that just like why aren't they crushing it by one three.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it takes time.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to switch gears from a moment talk about team and culture you grew a tremendous I mean go.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: There's very few folks that would still be the CEO I think going from two to 23 plus million and but I want to talk about how you.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is we've talked about this you know before we started before around how you care so much about building the right team.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know enough to know that when you grow that amount you've got to have the right people or the whole foundation would crumble.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So, to tell me how you managed to do that and what are some of the lessons you learned.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I mean I was probably a little late to the whole process of getting pulled out even at the size that we were.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to hand it to my current CEO John Kang and their team under him to they were successfully able to kick me out of IT.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean they they were made sure I had no more access to the infrastructure the network the decisions all of those things and so they did a really good job at.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean growing and taking on all the stuff that I used to do and even some of the unique things that they had no idea with like I had a big carrier background running the telecom network and they took on all that.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Along with building out the MSB stuff.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So, they continued to grow with that and now we're reshapings a lot of the stuff that we used to use or used to do.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And trying to set ourselves up for success in the future right like as through the 20 plus years we've been running this company you don't use all the same tools you don't use the same processes you're continually updating what you're doing and how you're doing it.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And as we brought in more leadership because we identified we needed either change or different skills within these roles.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: The idea was to eventually start getting them toward the different departments that we have within SPG kind of run themselves and shape what they need to do and hold them accountable to their delivery of that position to then allow us to grow.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We're still working some of that out too. I mean we're changing some of our processes we're changing some of our tools were and I think that's going to be the way it is for MSP's forever you have to be able to figure out how to change internally without affecting the.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can make a lot of things that we've done in the past 20 years and what we want to change and then how we want to continue to market that going forward.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And now that we have a full management team in place to really analyze and take ownership

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: of all those tools, it's then making sure that they're all comfortable with what they're

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: using instead of just inheriting what I chose all those years.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like hey, you got to do this.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Now let them figure out what they want to do and what they want to manage, especially if it

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: makes or does the same thing that it happened before, now I'm out of it.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to deal with it.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It's their job.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: They chose a new tool or wanted to take on this tool.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's their role, it's their job now.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And so the more and more you look into your environment as a owner and trying to get

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: pulled up, the more you have to trust in your team that's below you to take on all those

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: responsibilities and just because what you chose may not be what they want to choose.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And as long as sales can continue to sell it, you should be fine.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You should be okay with that.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You should actually encourage that.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So I know that you talked about it's that you're kind of in a new role.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know you've been see you forever, but having a little bit about that, it's a place

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_03]: that I think not many people get to.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think even less have the humility to talk about it.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So sure that would everybody if you would.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, as you're the guy who's kind of running as integrator as the US likes to use

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: where you're kind of in the weeds and everything and getting pushed and pushed more up,

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: ultimately you have to be the visionary, right?

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to get out of those day-to-day roles.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to start thinking about what's next in the business and what's going to what

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: new product or new processor things gonna drive revenue.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're still in the weeds running and trying to make all those other decisions

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that I've been able to hire them to run those roles, you won't be able to grow.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And so over the last couple of years, again, as they've taken everything away, I've been

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: starting to understand my new role.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't be the guy who's worried about this ticket or this PSA not functioning the way it is

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_01]: or that integration not working properly or why sales is having an issue with this.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I need to rely on my team to handle those issues because if I start getting pulled back

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: down you can't then be thinking about what's going to grow the company next.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a transition for me.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when you're doing all the things and then trying to now say okay you're not even

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: have the capability to do the things anymore because you're going on an aminent count to

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: do is it change, right?

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, it's a big change.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_03]: You're saying, right, what is it 17 years, 18 something like that since you found

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: this company?

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a side business back in like 2004, 2005 where I bought a company for its debt and

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_01]: had three customers and I still have those customers today.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't take it full time until around 2010.

[00:34:18] Okay.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So, in in maybe less as a full time.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But even since 2010, that's doing the math there if I can add or track this 14 years and

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you're saying it's really the last maybe two.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You've been kind of adjusting to this new CEO role.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a lot when you've done something and I know you adjusted and pushed yourself

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: up but still a lot when you're at least from my perspective in the weeds.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, all the things you start to, you know, as I've grown into this kind of role

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_03]: you do the customers, you knew the names and all of a sudden maybe don't know all of

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: them and you don't know their issues, their network, their whatever

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_03]: it is.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you kind of knew that it was in your least from opportunity, maybe in your head.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm still trying to get used to that one too.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to be able to, I literally would make my job to know every client and shake my hand.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I still try to do that today.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just harder when you're getting around 200 plus it's tough.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: To make time and to know and have those relationships and that's, I think again, part

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_01]: of the process that we're establishing is making sure that there is somebody there

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: which now is the VCEIOs that are becoming that kind of owner-led sales process where

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_01]: they're so engaged and what good looks like for their network.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do that, right?

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's their job to know what the future looks like for that client's network

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and to design that way, the client trusts them, that they're providing them real data

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: of what change that they need.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they don't have that trust, they're not going to buy or do those things.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really a see the VCEIO becoming that kind of owner-connection or main point

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_01]: of contact connection in this day and age.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, almost more than the term was because it's more driven of like, hey, let's talk

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: about your future, what you're doing and how we need to adjust for that.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what this owner did all the time.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I did for all those years, hey, who's the head contact?

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about your network.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to make these changes.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: They trusted me and then they bought.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can't do that anymore.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to rely on the team to do that.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where as I'm getting pulled out and not doing those things anymore,

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it's now building processes to make sure there's people that still do that

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and continue to push that.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's been a change.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's more and more.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like things were being taken away of what I was,

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but then it's really opening up to things I need to be for the business.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's where they've been able to push me, whether fighting and kicking,

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: but I'm getting there.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Of really working on what's next.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I'm curious how on the personal side, how does it feel

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_03]: because at least I'll speak in my perspective a little.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times, I've got mastery at this.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And pretty good at this.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I'll also never have to give it up.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And most of the time is to something that I'm not good at,

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_03]: or that I've maybe never done.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like some Pum-CEO is what she start to get good at something you have

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_03]: to give it away.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So tell me about your journey on that.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was time.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I loved being in the middle of everything.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But I definitely still loved bringing in new products.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We do have a little unique in the MSP space because of all of our different

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: product lines.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Like we do data center.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: We do circuits.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't resell of wipe solution.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a wipe solution internally.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Like we've started all these different product lines.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So I actually do like those things.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't have any time to figure out.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, once we spread it to a certain size

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and had so many different products to continue to grow them.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so even though I was loved the operation part,

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I did love bringing in some new ideas and new things

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of what we can do next.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And not everybody is going to want to do that.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they love maybe.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's OK.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe as instead of being the CEO,

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: you come president, right?

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Or the CEO.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And let somebody else kind of figure out that new future

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and next product line and how to lead that company.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not good at that.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm still going to be really good at that.

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still trying to work it out.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have everything down to a T.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I have lots of coaches and people that I talk to

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to help me grow that.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing that they've told me that I need to do is scary or foreign to me.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just like, OK, that's just expanding on and trying

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to build upon more of what was I was doing lightly

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_01]: as a full time now versus trying to do it lightly

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and do everything else.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So again, like I said that kicking and screaming earlier,

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to love going in and being the problem solver.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Like clients love to make it, yep, you solved our issue,

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you took out our outage, whatever it was.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was tough for me to let go.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But now it's OK, I can still do that in a way

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: with new product lines or new ways

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to I can change the customer's business

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: by figuring out what the company needs to invest in

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: or figure out next so we can bring that still to the client

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: just as a company and not me solving the problem.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really just kind of pushing on that concept.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Any advice you have for those of us that are owners

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_03]: that are listening to make sure we give away

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: the right things?

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think sometimes I don't know.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all good but I'm away.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes like, you have to scale

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: which means you have to give more and more weight

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because you start doing everything.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think at a certain point,

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_03]: like I think it's not hard when you go from being one

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_03]: or two engineers to three or four,

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't mean technically but you just hand off

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: a little more responsibility there

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_03]: or L1 tickets are not that interesting anymore, whatever.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But then they come to a point where you're giving away things

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that maybe you do enjoy.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So I know sometimes I haven't realized

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: so I've given them away and sometimes I'm so realized

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: it was the right thing and other times

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like maybe I'm giving away the things

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_03]: that I am either enjoying or the best at.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm curious if you've thought

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_03]: through that part of it.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and I think that's where operating systems come into play.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's, it help you identify things

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that you're supposed to let go of

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and where your role is

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you could start identifying

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_01]: if you really liked that role

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_01]: or you shouldn't have that role

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_01]: but that helps you decide what you need to give away

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: whether you like it or not

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and they kind of give you a framework of how to grow.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like okay, if you're gonna be this role

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: you can't be doing these things anymore.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm or not

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: this is just a proven concept over and over EOS scaling up.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: All of these things are ways that kind of help you understand

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: what you should be doing, what you shouldn't be doing

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and what you have to give away as you grow the business.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, I think those help

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and to really put out and be honest even like running through SOC 2

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and building out job descriptions

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: where every department or every role

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_01]: if you don't fit that job description

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you shouldn't be doing it, right?

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you shouldn't and if you can't fulfill

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the department description

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: you shouldn't be there

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and in that sum of the stuff comes through that maturity

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_01]: of following an operating system

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: or going through SOC 2

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: really identifying roles, departmental roles,

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: responsibilities and then looking at the staff

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and yourself of can you do that

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and is that your piece plays anymore?

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And that will help you go through that

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of what you should be giving away

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and what you shouldn't.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's like you said earlier

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: it's also pain points like some stuff

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: that you should be giving away first

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the stuff you don't like

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_01]: because you're probably not good at it.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's exactly right.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where things came to the sales stuff.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like I knew I was a good at it

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but I wasn't good to scale.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know how to run a sales team.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea where to bring this thing up

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: when we had, and still have these dreams

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to scale rapidly and grow as a book smartly.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew I needed somebody else

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to fulfill that role

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I needed to replace the things I did like.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Like again I liked their customer service side

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and the tech side of solving problems

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but again that's not where my role is.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So operating system self-defined

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: what you shouldn't should and keep.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Make it even if you weren't,

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_03]: even if you're good at sales

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_03]: as you realize the next level wasn't the role you needed

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and I love the fact that you love solving problems

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_03]: or were a customer service

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but you still gotta give it up

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: because you have a framework

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: with operating systems.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_03]: See understand if you're not gonna give it up

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: like you said maybe you need to be the COO

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and otherwise you're gonna hit this ceiling

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and hold back everybody.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And some people think that oh just

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I either own most of the company

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and I can't be a COO or a campus,

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: or a CTO for this company and it's like yeah you can.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just,

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: just your share ownership doesn't define

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that you have to be the top at the chain.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, there may be come a day where I say

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not the best CEO to grow this company.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You hire a CEO to do this job.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's any job can be fulfilled.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You gotta find out where you provide

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the most value in growth.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't mean just because you're the owner

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: you have to be the CEO if you're a better operator

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: go back to COO.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Have somebody else fulfill the role.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just some people get messed up

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: in that concept like well on the owner,

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to be the top.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: No no.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_03]: No there's something that are far better

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_03]: integrators and COOs and I'm better

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_03]: on the visionary side but you gotta have that right person

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_03]: or your whole thing will come unraveled.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you give you the best salesperson

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01]: or know how to run a sales team great,

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you can still be CRO or CSO for a sales team

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and hire a CEO to do the CEO things.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It's maybe their better public speakers,

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe their better networkers and partnership developers

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: then you are.

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Higher CEO, you don't have to be the top.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanna switch gears from in it

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and take advantage of all your experience over these years

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and all this growth.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_03]: What's one of the biggest lessons

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you feel like you've learned or that you would share?

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like I said,

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even join a peer group

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_01]: until the last three or four years.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like I was way late to that

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and I used to think in the first 10 years of this business

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I do a good work group of competitors

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and talk about what's working for me

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was that thinking that really helped me back

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to be honest.

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We probably would have been a lot more further in advance

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_01]: than we are today if I had joined a peer group.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's been one of the most enlightening things

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: for me as an MSP owner was to join a peer group

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and the things that we talk about

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: aren't just, hey, what's working in your markets

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's also what is next for the MSP

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and helping me with my visionary goals

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_01]: of finding out new ways and new products to sell

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and how to differentiate ourselves

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because in the end, we all do support.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you don't want the customer to think

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that that's all you do or you will be then price shopping.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's your analogous to catalog

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and oh, you're the cheapest price?

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, you all do support

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: so I don't even care.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm gonna get some normal complaints here

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're I don't even care,

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_01]: one's better than the other, you're just cheapest.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we don't want to get into that realm.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to be dropping to the just who's the cheapest

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and we all are gonna lose in that MSP here.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So peer groups help you get above that.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They're telling you what to think about next.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_01]: How to grow, how to connect more with your clients,

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: why is it important?

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Why learning from their mistakes

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and I could say I wish I did that way earlier than I did

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and I probably would have had a lot more success

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: by learning from all these other smart individuals

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: who were in businesses much longer than us

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and getting their data of their wins in losses.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'd say still that's the best

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that and definitely getting a good bank.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Having a good bank on your side

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and getting a line of credit and using it,

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_01]: especially when you're first starting off, it's so important.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_03]: If there was one thing you could do differently

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_03]: or do over,

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_03]: will it that be?

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_01]: That's, again, that's besides just the peer group.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's much more out of doing different.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we've been pretty lucky with that.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I think just with the teams and the products

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that we've brought,

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: if I didn't know COVID was coming out of change some things,

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but yeah, but no, I don't think there's too much

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: out of change in what we've done

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's also helped us grow to where we are now.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They've been great in knowing more

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: what I knew back then in Luccoe learned.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I still rely on the peer group,

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but other than that,

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say a lot of the stuff that we've gotten through

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and where we're at today are because of what we went through.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just assuming to be not only open

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_03]: but you just have it,

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_03]: but I consider unusual degree of humility.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Where you talk about,

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to do this, I need to learn this.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that personally,

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I would bet on you because I think that's going to take you places

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that it won't take others.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that always how you've been

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: with that through some hard fought to losses?

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I definitely kind of want those people

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that like tell you the truth all the time,

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_01]: whether it hurts me or not.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually one of some deals because of it.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had CIOs reach out to me and say,

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_01]: no, I could tell you were the only honest one

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_01]: on all these RFPs.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And we want that.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's being honest and humble

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is definitely a way to grow.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely, again, I think why

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I still have those first three clients today

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_01]: because they've seen what we've done

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_01]: where we're going and how we're always there

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and telling the truth what's good or bad

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_01]: in order to fix it and take any kind of ability

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_01]: for those issues.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So even when we had some, whether it's RFP,

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: they're fault, it's just getting to the point

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_01]: of what the problem is and just fixing it

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and making sure it doesn't happen again.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's like a lot of people think MSPs

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: are just like retroactive,

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: like looking in the past, firemen

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and if your clients start thinking of you

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that way, you're doing something wrong.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you can't think that way.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't make them think that way.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to look into the future

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think that's what's going to continue

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to grow relationships

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and being honest with them

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's just in my nature.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of MSPs, what's a common myth

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: about MSPs that you feel like you'd like to debunk?

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'd say MSPs, maybe they think all of their all

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_01]: like, like a, and that's a simply not true.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I think when customers kind of understand

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that there are some built for mid-market,

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_01]: there are some built for small business,

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_01]: not everybody does a bundle,

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: not everybody does the same thing.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Then they will realize that where the true value starts shining.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say one of the things we do well is our vendor management.

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Like because we can take 10, 20 locations

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_01]: both for circuits, for a data center, anything

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and put it on one bill,

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a differentiator for us, right?

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Not as most a lot of MSPs can't say they do that.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's literally not everybody fits that.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Now are we best to sell into some of the SMBs?

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_01]: No, we're gonna be a little more expensive.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_01]: No.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Because of all those different solutions.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think when customers start understanding

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that MSPs are different and what you're looking for

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01]: needs to be value driven and not priced driven,

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: they're going to win and have stronger lasting relationships

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_01]: with their MSP than they will by just thinking

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_01]: we're all the same and that's just price shopping.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I think MSP needs to hear that because sometimes

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: it just feels like it's very stilotamin,

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that's what big is your thing?

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_03]: You do the exact same thing.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Seeing a lot of the sales calls and sales consultants

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything and saying you cannot just go to price.

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you will shoot yourself in the foot every time.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to figure out what your value is

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and push that and preach it.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is what's going to get you the higher margins.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to switch gears and talk about the future.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_03]: What is it that you're looking forward to?

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Really, this new layer of growth

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're gonna be pushing for.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have a couple of initiatives in the shear

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're looking at our house if you will.

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We're redefining some of our product lines

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and making sure both from onboarding delivery sales,

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_01]: outcomes, customer success,

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_01]: invoicing all of that.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing a real deep dive on ourselves

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_01]: because we want to be able to make room for more

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_01]: of these ideas that I'm coming up for the future.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So we felt like it was important to step back sometimes

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and just kind of make sure you got your house in order

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_01]: with all of everything that you do

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and how you're delivering it

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because you can't be thinking about new stuff.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're still working on stuff,

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: you're trying to deliver today.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So we really wanted just make sure

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_01]: we're on the same page and those different aspects

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_01]: of the business on every product line we deliver today

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_01]: for we then start introducing some more new ones

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that we feel will be game changers in the upcoming

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: with the future.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Both with AI and automation

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and how we can incorporate that into our portal

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and provide more integration into customers' businesses

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01]: beyond just this tools that we deliver today.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So we wanted to take a real deep dive in 2024

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: at what we're doing is there anything we need to change.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_01]: The products, the descriptions, the marketing,

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: all of that stuff to ensure it's a very value-focused

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and then be able to introduce new ideas

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and new futures that we have coming up

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and with some of our CMMC solutions,

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_01]: with some of the automation stuff that we want to go.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a lot we want to do

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_01]: but I felt it was important to use this year

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: as a check yourself here

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and ensure we're ready to do that.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think I need to hear that on a matter of my nails

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_03]: because sometimes I get excited about the opportunity

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and prove the way we deliver.

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the way we do this, this opportunity for growth,

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever that is, whether it's the automation lever

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_03]: or the AI lever or the compliance lever

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever it is, it gets excited

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but sometimes just going through your house

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and making sure you're ready.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it could be the best thing you ever do.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we feel it helps sync everybody up

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01]: some of the new people at management all agree

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that this is how we're delivering everything that we do today

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and that way we're all at the same page,

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_01]: we're all agree this is the direction on all

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_01]: each of these lines and then we allow us to then open it up

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to new stuff because with the new management

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that I've hired over the last three years

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and now that we have a good tree structure,

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_01]: CRO, CO, directors, senior directors, managers.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Like we needed these, a lot of these people are new

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and they need to understand why we're doing this

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and they may have new ideas of why we shouldn't be doing that

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and how we're doing this is inefficient

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: isn't quoting to our core values

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_01]: like we need to get better at what we're doing today

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_01]: before we can start looking at ways to fix the future.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're really diving into that

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and making sure everything that we're doing

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_01]: is pushing to our core values, pushing to our mission statement

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and really driving out the outcomes that we want

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and that the customer needs in order to see our value.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's our year, like it's really just a reboot

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_01]: into looking at what we have.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_03]: What's up book you that you would recommend

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_03]: anybody that's listening?

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say one of the most recent ones

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that helped me was the five dist functions of a team, right?

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a two-time amount.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely a good book.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It has some laws and some things that you need to follow

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and tells you like the absence of trust,

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the fear of conflict, the lack of commitment

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_01]: of what it's of accountability, attention,

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and attention to results.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Those are all the bad things, right?

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, a lot of those things,

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: then you talked about the good things,

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the opposite of those, like an absence of trust.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_01]: No, you need to trust one another.

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Fear of conflict, no, you need to engage in healthy conflict.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's all of those things are really how to drive

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the more out of your team

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_01]: because as soon as you guys can learn to do that in a meeting,

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you can then start having the outcomes

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that you want out of that meeting

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in order to make the changes in your environment

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that you want to change.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was, that's been important for us.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_01]: As we start looking into all these product lines

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because we have to be honest,

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_01]: we have to know some things are broken,

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_01]: some things are great and not every idea is going

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to be that year we go with.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I thought that was a good book.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I shared all the notes with my staff,

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_01]: encouraged them to read it too.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's definitely when I was suggest.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And beyond any of those books that Patrick's written,

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it's they're all going to be helpful

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and definitely some nuggets you can steal from each one.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, six types of working genius

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and somebody go on there.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was always lucky to take care

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_01]: of working genius.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So I read that one too.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_01]: That was how everybody can,

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: it helped put into perspective

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and because me, my CEO and CRO,

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, my CRO and CRO read that.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And we started identifying how we all think

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and it made some sense on how some of the times

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that we get frustrated with each other

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's like, hey, this is the point

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and then we have the wanderers just like,

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_01]: well what about this?

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And just going way beyond

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and all of those are essential.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So I did like that book too.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That is, I appreciate that because I think,

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, in a similar way,

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate the language to recognize that

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_03]: because those things were perhaps happening

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but didn't have the framework or the language

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to identify that it's all relevant and it's all needed.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's okay, because I think it's easy to say,

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_03]: stay on point or just do this

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and be very tourist or direct about it

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_03]: but they're all needed in the right context

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and it helped.

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And for the rest of the evening,

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_01]: like if you're trying to do a strategy meeting,

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_01]: a wanderers the best place for them

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_01]: because then you want them to go all over the place

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and think about all the different ways that you can do stuff.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The last thing you want is the person

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_01]: just wanting to get in completion

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_01]: because you don't want that meeting rushed.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like this task could go on

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_01]: for quite a few meetings to figure out what's next

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_01]: not just, hey, you wanna just go through a bump of a woman

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_01]: get it done and get it off your plate.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the way strategy meetings go.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you got somebody that's the T,

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't want them in that meeting

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but if you got an operational thing

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that you wanna get done

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and you wanna make sure it gets done to completion,

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_01]: T is exactly who should be given it to.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a cool book and seeing how the assessment

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_01]: worked out for our management team

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and where we all shined.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Greg, I feel like I could do this all afternoon

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_03]: but I will be a good steward of your time.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being on MSP mindset.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Would you let everyone know if you're open to it?

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: How they could find you social media website, whatever,

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever you recommend.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean LinkedIn, I'm there.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm definitely open to talk to other MSPs

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and talk to one literally

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_01]: with the last month on growth strategies

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and things that we were doing

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that were working or not working at the time.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that'd say that would be the best way of LinkedIn.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, don't miss out on that opportunity.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Take Greg up on that offer.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We've gotten to talk backstage

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and learn a lot of cool things from you.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for that.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And thank you for being on MSP mindset.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, David.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate it.