From 600k to +$2M: Overcoming The $1M Hurdle at Your MSP (MSP Titan #21)

[00:00:00] We're growing, we brought some talent in, and I see problems. What am I going to do? How can I go sell a service to somebody that possibly I feel that we might not be able to produce properly because of operational issues that I was not necessarily aware of that have risen up from success in sales.

[00:00:20] A problem I think you want to have, but you have to know how to handle it. You have to know how to pivot properly to adjust to that change.

[00:00:35] Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset, founder and CEO of Servocity. Today I continue my mission to interview 100 of the fastest growing and most interesting MSPs on the planet.

[00:00:48] Today I'm blessed to be joined by Ron Opperman. Now Ron has a really interesting and unique story where he started as a single man operation, had a great friend named Randy where they spent 15 years partnering and doing deals together.

[00:01:04] They got so close they even had a shared employee. Spoiler alert, doesn't work that well.

[00:01:09] And no matter what they did, they struggled to grow any faster than 5% a year.

[00:01:15] Then Randy found Marketopia and more importantly, Ron went all in and put all, not only the money, but the time it took to make that successful.

[00:01:25] And he went from 5% growth to 45% growth per year.

[00:01:29] If you'd like to learn how your MSP can grow like Ron, don't miss out on my conversation with Ron today.

[00:01:37] Yeah, no. So Randy, Randy went out to an ASCII conference, uh, many years ago in San Diego, I think.

[00:01:46] And he met, uh, with Marketopia out, they had, you know, a booth out there and, uh, we were kicking around like, you know, how, I don't know what, how do you do it?

[00:01:58] But Randy, Randy always had some ideas about outbound and lead gen and how to do it.

[00:02:03] Uh, but never really executed on anything fully because he was so driven with the technology.

[00:02:09] I'm glad he didn't try to steer his ship the other way.

[00:02:12] It was, he was smart to stick in that direction.

[00:02:14] He tried, just failed at it. Like, you know, others had like everybody else.

[00:02:18] Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

[00:02:20] So, so he comes back and tells me, you know, from this conference all about Marketopia.

[00:02:26] And I was like, I'm one to go, all right, let's try it. Let's go.

[00:02:31] Let's, let's do it. Sounds good.

[00:02:33] Uh,

[00:02:34] So what was it that sounded good? Like, I don't know what the,

[00:02:36] Yeah.

[00:02:37] What was it? Well, that they were going to be able to give us leads.

[00:02:40] Okay.

[00:02:41] That we're going to convert into sales.

[00:02:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:46] That we're going to lead the profit.

[00:02:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:50] That sounds pretty good.

[00:02:50] When you, when you see the tagline, more leads, more sales, more profit.

[00:02:55] Where do I sign?

[00:02:56] Yeah.

[00:02:56] All right. So good.

[00:02:58] No, but how do you do that?

[00:03:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:01] How does that engine work?

[00:03:03] That's a whole nother probably podcast.

[00:03:05] But that is the journey that I am then embarked on for E3 to get us somewhere.

[00:03:13] More so than I think maybe when we merged, we were like 600,000 in revenue.

[00:03:18] Okay.

[00:03:19] Maybe something of that nature.

[00:03:20] Uh, pieces of it being reoccurring, no form, no form of real agreements in place that are

[00:03:27] assignable on all the things that you want to have.

[00:03:29] We didn't really have any structure there.

[00:03:31] Just.

[00:03:32] And what were you, do you have any sense for what your growth was when you were like,

[00:03:37] I know you're a step-rote, but like what kind of growth were you really driving, um, before

[00:03:42] that?

[00:03:43] Prior to Mark Adobe?

[00:03:44] Yeah.

[00:03:46] I mean, I, I, I have to go back into like the tech cad books, but I mean, I know when

[00:03:52] we merged, I was probably like 5% a year, something like that.

[00:03:59] Brandy probably was somewhere stagnant in there.

[00:04:02] Cause I think when we look back, I did maybe like 200,000 in 217, 240 in 2018, maybe a 250

[00:04:11] in 2019 before we merged.

[00:04:13] So somewhere around those numbers, uh, lots of it being project based.

[00:04:18] When I look back at this, wow.

[00:04:20] Like, wow.

[00:04:22] Uh, so yeah, revenue, but man, we're just burning through it and there's nothing, there's

[00:04:27] some reoccurring, but at such a slow, smaller percentage than we are now.

[00:04:33] Uh, so.

[00:04:35] So you decided to jump all in on Marketopia.

[00:04:38] Jump all in?

[00:04:39] Not all in.

[00:04:40] We didn't really jump all in.

[00:04:40] That was probably part of my original, uh, maybe, you know, I would say if I look back

[00:04:46] at it now, jumped in, meaning we're going to spend 5,000 and $6,000 a month on a plan

[00:04:54] that's going to bring these leads in.

[00:04:56] And that's a lot.

[00:04:57] And then we're going to have sales.

[00:04:59] And then we're going to have profit.

[00:05:00] And that's a lot of money at a small level.

[00:05:03] But it's like this.

[00:05:04] No, it doesn't even work that way.

[00:05:06] Yeah.

[00:05:06] The leads come in.

[00:05:08] How do you make them sales?

[00:05:09] Like that was like a, I don't know.

[00:05:11] And then how does it get profit?

[00:05:13] That's like 66% of everything.

[00:05:15] Yeah.

[00:05:16] Cool.

[00:05:16] Mark.

[00:05:16] He's like, here it is.

[00:05:17] Here.

[00:05:18] Here's your lead.

[00:05:19] There's a green sheet.

[00:05:20] Great.

[00:05:21] Where's the sale?

[00:05:22] Yeah.

[00:05:22] Where's the problem.

[00:05:23] None of that exists.

[00:05:24] Right.

[00:05:25] So I was like, whoa.

[00:05:27] So I dived in meaning I started studying watching this training videos and go into these peer

[00:05:33] group meetings that were virtual at first.

[00:05:35] Cause we died.

[00:05:36] We started this in October of 2020.

[00:05:38] So like we merged in, we merged in 2019, spent that whole next year, just sort of like servicing

[00:05:45] the clients, figuring things out.

[00:05:48] 2020 comes around.

[00:05:50] COVID stuff starts happening, but we still want to grow.

[00:05:53] And we had set up, you know, months prior to October of 2020, signed an agreement, things

[00:06:00] all started.

[00:06:01] So I, I, uh, I didn't know anything really about marketing and sales.

[00:06:08] I think I knew enough about sales that I could talk to people and, and then didn't know when

[00:06:14] to shut up.

[00:06:15] Didn't know when to, to know that the sale had already occurred and I'm still selling, even

[00:06:20] though they already bought, they want to buy.

[00:06:22] Yeah.

[00:06:23] Just all these things I didn't know.

[00:06:25] So it's so formalized at Marketopia.

[00:06:28] It was, you know, there's training, there's, there's meetings we're going to have.

[00:06:32] You're going to be in a group with peers and these peers are going to be like you maybe.

[00:06:37] Uh, so I get thrusted into that environment.

[00:06:41] And what was that like all of a sudden being in that group of peers?

[00:06:45] All right.

[00:06:45] So I think what helped me with that, I could see how some others were, might've been a

[00:06:50] little, uh, scared about that type of engagement, but I had just previously, I

[00:06:58] a year prior that joined a networking group.

[00:07:01] Right.

[00:07:02] Uh, called La Tip.

[00:07:04] And I didn't get a lot of great traction out of group.

[00:07:06] Cause I think, you know, I didn't know necessarily know everything I needed to know to be in

[00:07:10] that type of group, but I did learn how to be a better public speaker.

[00:07:14] Talk in front of a group and in front of people, my peers every day, every Thursday, be a presenter,

[00:07:23] tell your where, talk about your where's engage with others.

[00:07:26] Right.

[00:07:26] So when I got to, and I had done this in an engineering discipline before back in the

[00:07:31] nineties, but I was just always the guy at the end of the line, you know, and now I'm

[00:07:35] sort of in the front of the line engaging.

[00:07:37] Uh, that helped me.

[00:07:39] So it was really nice to be put into the peer group.

[00:07:43] I was put into, who do you think was in my period?

[00:07:46] Jeffrey Newton.

[00:07:48] Cool.

[00:07:49] I had a grand slam with Yoda right there, right there.

[00:07:51] Uh, Sean Marano.

[00:07:54] I had a lot of great people in my group, Terry Hedden being the owner of Marketopia, running

[00:07:59] that peer group, learning from a legend himself, sitting there across from the table from him.

[00:08:06] Yeah.

[00:08:06] Write the notes down.

[00:08:07] You know, like, what did he just say?

[00:08:09] Okay.

[00:08:10] So, so I was known as that person in the, in the peer group.

[00:08:14] You know, I was known like, what did you say?

[00:08:16] What?

[00:08:17] You know?

[00:08:18] And some of them will be like, what?

[00:08:20] You don't know that already?

[00:08:22] I don't.

[00:08:23] I'm learning, you know?

[00:08:24] So let me, let me engage.

[00:08:26] Let me, you know, let me find out what I don't know.

[00:08:28] So I go on for months and months.

[00:08:31] I, I fly to Marketopia for onsite peer group.

[00:08:34] Okay.

[00:08:34] The first one I tend every two weeks, the peers, I'm doing the trainings, get my sales certification,

[00:08:40] blah, blah, blah thing, you know, that they give you for being, you know, you passing all

[00:08:45] the tests, but I'm learning valuable insights along that journey on how to interact with

[00:08:52] a client, how to prepare properly, how to research them so that I could find things in common

[00:08:59] so we could talk on the common ground and become friends and we can just be people first.

[00:09:05] And then hopefully we'll do business together.

[00:09:07] Yeah.

[00:09:08] And if we don't do business together, maybe we'll be friends.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] What's wrong with that?

[00:09:12] That's actually not a bad thing.

[00:09:14] Right.

[00:09:14] Not that I'm running out to get friends at left and right, but some of the people I meet

[00:09:19] are really cool.

[00:09:20] And some of them I don't do business with like as a client, some of them turn into be referral

[00:09:25] partners.

[00:09:26] Right.

[00:09:26] So these engage yourself.

[00:09:28] So we just dive in, we dive in, uh, but I'm not landing any sales.

[00:09:33] I'm not selling anything.

[00:09:35] Hmm.

[00:09:36] So why are we doing this?

[00:09:37] Yeah.

[00:09:38] I can't sell anything.

[00:09:40] Right.

[00:09:41] So doubt starts to creep in.

[00:09:43] Right.

[00:09:43] We all hate the, you start losing some confidence in what you are doing.

[00:09:48] Now, lucky for me, I had an experience in life that crushed my confidence, destroyed it.

[00:09:56] So I know what that is like.

[00:09:58] So look, I'm not going down that alley anymore.

[00:10:00] That's not that alley.

[00:10:01] Doesn't, I don't travel down that path.

[00:10:03] I did it once came back.

[00:10:04] I'm not going back there.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:06] So I'm, I'm like six, seven months into this engagement.

[00:10:09] We're spending, I don't know, 6,000 a month getting nowhere.

[00:10:13] Look at our revenue.

[00:10:14] We're only, we're spending 36,000.

[00:10:16] This is a lot of money going out and like no results.

[00:10:18] It's a lot of money and you're, you're leaning in.

[00:10:21] Now you've got a lot of time invested as well.

[00:10:23] Well, that's all, that's what I'm doing.

[00:10:24] It's pretty much what I'm doing.

[00:10:26] This episode is brought to you by Servosity.

[00:10:29] I started Servosity because I was an MSP that lost data because I thought backup success meant I could recover.

[00:10:38] And boy, was I wrong.

[00:10:39] If you've ever been there or anywhere close, you know how much your stomach turns over the thought of not being able to recover any version of the data for your client.

[00:10:50] Now, naively, I set off to build a better mousetrap and build a better backup product until finally I realized it's all about the people and the process.

[00:11:00] So you have a choice to make. Do nothing and bury your head in the sand or level up your processes.

[00:11:06] Now, you can do that by either hiring Servosity or we'll take all the workload of managing backups off of your plate and test your backups daily, weekly, monthly and quarterly.

[00:11:14] Or you can keep the tech stack you have in place, your existing backup into your provider and steal my 18 years of knowledge and download that process and add that to your operational maturity today.

[00:11:28] I think most MSPs that haven't had to invest in sales and marketing think you can write a check.

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:38] And just watch it happen.

[00:11:41] Nope.

[00:11:42] I learned that.

[00:11:44] Definitely.

[00:11:45] Uh, Jeffrey is right too.

[00:11:46] And he's talked when he talks about six months, like you gotta go just throw it or throw it.

[00:11:51] Don't think about that money and think you just gotta like invest, but you gotta do the work.

[00:11:59] Mm hmm.

[00:11:59] So you can't just, you know, you gotta invest your time.

[00:12:03] And then when you're investing that time, which I'm still working at to better make best use of that time when you are investing that time.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:15] When you can do that, then you can maximize those returns.

[00:12:19] Jeffrey has done this in such a fascinating way.

[00:12:21] I want to be in his brain so bad because he's figured out ways to do that.

[00:12:26] Right.

[00:12:27] So I, I sort of went, all right, I am not, I'm not signing any deals here.

[00:12:35] Why is that?

[00:12:36] Right.

[00:12:36] What, what is the reason?

[00:12:38] And I sort of attributed to, I wasn't getting enough at bats.

[00:12:44] I was only the, the plan that I was on for $6,000 a month or whatever it was, was called a mock one.

[00:12:51] I think they don't even have it anymore.

[00:12:53] Cause I told him, get rid of that.

[00:12:54] It's a bad plan because what it is, is you only, you know, you get a caller like calls for a quarter.

[00:13:00] You get a quarter caller one day a week.

[00:13:02] All right.

[00:13:03] So in my unique case, the caller that I ended up partnering with was a rock star.

[00:13:10] She was stellar.

[00:13:12] She knew what after, you know, all the marketing that Mark Dupy had done.

[00:13:16] And you know, the website, the SEO, and we got email campaigns going out and that's all trickling through.

[00:13:22] Then you get this caller who's spectacular.

[00:13:25] She's getting me green sheets that were solid sales qualified leads.

[00:13:29] You know, I didn't know what an SQL was.

[00:13:33] I learned that like, Oh, so now I'm like, wow.

[00:13:35] So now she's getting me these qualified leads.

[00:13:39] She's getting me, let's say she calls on a Monday.

[00:13:42] She gets me two.

[00:13:43] So she gets me eight a month on calling one day a week.

[00:13:46] What could she get me if she called all the time?

[00:13:48] Yeah.

[00:13:49] She was incredible.

[00:13:50] But I didn't.

[00:13:51] So I would work.

[00:13:52] Let's say I get two leads.

[00:13:55] I blow and one multiple deals were lost on time.

[00:13:58] You know, I didn't, I didn't put together my sales process properly in a time sequence.

[00:14:03] I let too much time go in between different aspects of the process.

[00:14:07] Learned that the hard way.

[00:14:08] Right.

[00:14:10] So I, my partner at this time, he literally was like, we, we got to get out of this deal.

[00:14:15] Excuse me.

[00:14:16] And he's like, he goes, you know, we started looking around for alternatives.

[00:14:21] Oh, and I know these alternatives now because I started putting energy into researching alternative.

[00:14:28] Whoa, whoa.

[00:14:29] Back to the mirror.

[00:14:30] Ron, you're in an engagement for 24 months with a company.

[00:14:35] Do the 24 months is what I told myself.

[00:14:37] Put the effort and time into every, get better, work at it.

[00:14:42] How do I work at it?

[00:14:43] Books, buy books that are on sales.

[00:14:46] So I started buying some different books on sales.

[00:14:48] I joined a sales, different sales training platform that helped me in three months of that sales training platform.

[00:14:57] Things change.

[00:14:58] So now I'm in like the ninth month of marketopia.

[00:15:01] I did six months with them, you know, solely.

[00:15:05] And then I'm doing my peer groups and everything, but also I'm reaching out for more information from others.

[00:15:10] I'm, I'm, I'm just trying, you know, like I always had done in my career.

[00:15:14] Don't know the answer to this.

[00:15:16] Let me research and see where I could find it.

[00:15:18] Yeah.

[00:15:19] So I research, I use some of these skill sets that I learned from this training.

[00:15:24] And then the ninth month I signed an agreement.

[00:15:26] That's a marketopia deal.

[00:15:28] So it took me nine months in marketopia.

[00:15:31] Well, many would just quit after six months.

[00:15:33] They might say, this doesn't work.

[00:15:34] This is a waste of money.

[00:15:35] I just dropped $45,000 and I got nothing out of it.

[00:15:39] What am I going to do?

[00:15:39] Keep dropping money at, you know, that's how people think I I've seen them come into marketopia and do those types of things.

[00:15:46] But I said, no, I'm going to double down.

[00:15:49] So instead of a one-time call, I want a full-time caller.

[00:15:51] Now my, now my price is going up to 10 grand a month.

[00:15:55] My partner's like, what are you doing?

[00:15:57] Yeah.

[00:15:58] You know what I mean?

[00:16:00] So we said, no, let's, let's, let's get more cracks at it.

[00:16:03] I have a couple more questions.

[00:16:04] Sure.

[00:16:05] So the, I'm sure it felt amazing.

[00:16:08] You get your first deal close from them, right?

[00:16:11] It was.

[00:16:11] But about the same time you double down, but just for context, like, did you close the deal that made up for all that investment?

[00:16:18] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:16:20] That was so.

[00:16:21] I'm trying to put myself in your partner's shoes.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:25] But it's still just a little piece of that.

[00:16:28] I said it was $1,800 a month.

[00:16:30] So we used to have back, this was a three and a half years ago.

[00:16:33] We used to have this plan called it the basic plan.

[00:16:36] I know some of you MSPs out there.

[00:16:38] There's that basic plan.

[00:16:40] And where we would charge you a fee for maintenance and monitoring proactive, but then we would charge you for remote support and onsite support.

[00:16:46] It's like, you know, like every time we touch you, you're going to get a bill.

[00:16:50] And that's the plan that I sold him on.

[00:16:53] It's a not, it was a nonprofit.

[00:16:55] And I also got them.

[00:16:56] Thank you, Sean Marano is watching this.

[00:16:58] I got him to prepay.

[00:17:00] Nice.

[00:17:01] So I, the first deal I signed was a 1800 month prepay.

[00:17:06] So what did he give us?

[00:17:07] He gave us $21,000 check.

[00:17:11] So that is since was two months of marketopia still did not have my marketopia spend back.

[00:17:16] Yeah.

[00:17:18] Uh, and then we're still going to build, build this guy in this company is nonprofit in a certain manner.

[00:17:24] Well, six months later, he ends up asking us to get out of that plan to move to the full remote support plan, which is around $3,000 a month.

[00:17:33] Yeah.

[00:17:34] So I was like, Whoa, we just sort of sold.

[00:17:37] He became a client and then we upsell them a little bit more into a better plan.

[00:17:40] That's sort of what we would want to have happen inside the company, get him better services.

[00:17:45] Cause that's what he really needs.

[00:17:46] But I just wanted to win.

[00:17:48] I was like, buy something from me, please.

[00:17:50] You know?

[00:17:50] Yes.

[00:17:50] Got one.

[00:17:51] Yeah.

[00:17:52] So, uh, so that was huge.

[00:17:55] That deal that gave me more confidence.

[00:17:58] Uh, and with confidence, you know, you get a little bit of wind at your back and things start feeling a little better.

[00:18:04] So, uh, that was in one year, that was the only deal that I signed that year.

[00:18:09] That's a lonely year.

[00:18:10] Right.

[00:18:11] Yeah.

[00:18:11] But, but it was, it was somewhat productive because it got me in the journey.

[00:18:17] Mm-hmm .

[00:18:17] I know people have been doing this for multiple years and don't have any sales.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:22] It's crazy.

[00:18:23] Mm-hmm .

[00:18:23] And, and, you know, and I'm like, well, you should have fired yourself a long time ago.

[00:18:27] Yeah.

[00:18:27] Cause I was getting close to firing myself.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:29] I, I, like I have a, I have a strange relationship with myself.

[00:18:33] If you're not producing one, you have to go.

[00:18:35] I just, I can't, I'm on 52.

[00:18:37] I don't have enough time to like wait.

[00:18:39] So you have to produce.

[00:18:40] So I keep strong.

[00:18:42] I keep doubling down.

[00:18:44] And the second year, well, yeah, my second year in Marketopia, I get four deals.

[00:18:49] And right towards the end of that, I get my Marketopia spend.

[00:18:53] Mm-hmm .

[00:18:55] And that's when, that's when it was like, okay, all right.

[00:18:58] That felt good because it took me probably about a year and a half, two years to do that.

[00:19:04] Right towards the end of my contract, you know, I was like, oh, wow.

[00:19:09] Okay.

[00:19:10] So that helps.

[00:19:10] So that, that helped drive some growth.

[00:19:12] We were feeling, okay, at least we're putting out 10 grand or so.

[00:19:15] We're bringing in that much from that.

[00:19:16] Yeah.

[00:19:17] From those entities.

[00:19:18] Now we have to go service them properly.

[00:19:20] Mm-hmm .

[00:19:21] Okay.

[00:19:22] But my head back then, two years ago, was on, that's your job.

[00:19:29] Yeah.

[00:19:30] Oh, I just, I just killed myself to bring in all this meat.

[00:19:34] And now you guys want me to be the chef?

[00:19:36] Wait a second.

[00:19:36] Hold on.

[00:19:38] So that's, I didn't, I did not know what I did not know.

[00:19:40] So I just keep on this journey.

[00:19:42] This third year, I had 18 deals.

[00:19:45] All right.

[00:19:45] So I want to make sure I'm following it.

[00:19:47] First year, one deal.

[00:19:48] One deal.

[00:19:49] Second year, like.

[00:19:51] It was about four deals.

[00:19:52] I think there's four deals that came in through, through that engagement.

[00:19:56] One of them ended up being, because that first client that I signed asked us to do a seminar

[00:20:02] for them in the year two.

[00:20:05] Did the seminar.

[00:20:07] Got a deal.

[00:20:08] A big one.

[00:20:09] A prepay of about 60,000 a year.

[00:20:12] Nice.

[00:20:13] Came out of that.

[00:20:13] So it was like, whoa.

[00:20:15] And that's the marketopia way.

[00:20:18] Seminars go to different conferences.

[00:20:20] Right.

[00:20:20] So I was, you know, we're sampling at things.

[00:20:23] A lot of my time involved in that, you know, have to go.

[00:20:26] I can't, can't be out selling here.

[00:20:28] If I'm up running a seminar for two days here.

[00:20:30] But those, that second year, I got four deals.

[00:20:33] And then the third year, it was just onslaught 18 deals.

[00:20:37] That's, that's a huge difference.

[00:20:41] And I, and I slightly did what Jeffrey did is slightly broke production.

[00:20:47] Hmm.

[00:20:48] And so it was like, what am I going to, all right.

[00:20:49] So if it's at that pace, we want me to bring in 36 deals the next year, three a month.

[00:20:53] Right.

[00:20:53] People will be running out the doors.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:56] So that's when I was like last year, just not even a year ago, not even a year ago,

[00:21:03] having this problem, we're growing.

[00:21:07] We brought some talent in that Randy and I sourced.

[00:21:14] Uh, and I see problems.

[00:21:17] There's, there's things there.

[00:21:19] And so there goes my confidence again.

[00:21:21] I'm like, Oh, crud, am I going to go start, you know, start, what am I going to do?

[00:21:25] How can I go tell, sell a service to somebody that possibly I feel that we might not be able to produce properly.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:32] Because of operational issues, uh, that I was not necessarily aware of that have risen up from success in sales.

[00:21:41] Mm hmm.

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:42] A problem I think you want to have, but you have to know how to handle it.

[00:21:46] Yeah.

[00:21:46] You have to know how to, uh, pivot properly to adjust.

[00:21:53] So that change.

[00:21:55] I want to try to frame this.

[00:21:56] Yeah.

[00:21:57] You, you merged, you guys were growing 5%, let's say 600 K in revenue.

[00:22:03] And then, uh, and now, and that was somewhere, I guess, 2019, 2020.

[00:22:09] 2019.

[00:22:11] And so 2019.

[00:22:12] And then now what's the revenue?

[00:22:16] 2.3 this year.

[00:22:17] So 2.3 million.

[00:22:19] So you went from three employees to 11, 600 K to 2.3 million.

[00:22:25] And, uh, what was the growth rate like last year?

[00:22:29] So let the last three years.

[00:22:32] So last year was 25%.

[00:22:34] Year before that was 25%.

[00:22:35] This year looks to be 45%.

[00:22:38] And I haven't sold though.

[00:22:40] You didn't ask me about this year's sale.

[00:22:42] Yeah.

[00:22:42] Right.

[00:22:44] Not so good, Damien.

[00:22:46] No, I think I brought in like 11,000 in reoccurring revenue this year.

[00:22:51] I have to go track it.

[00:22:52] Right.

[00:22:52] Wow.

[00:22:54] I wanted a $5,000 number.

[00:22:56] Yeah.

[00:22:57] That was my goal.

[00:22:57] It's up on the board.

[00:22:58] $5,000 a month.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:02] Yeah.

[00:23:03] We, if I would have done that last eight months ago, it would be bad.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:10] So what did I do?

[00:23:11] I'm like, hmm, I'm going to have all these problems.

[00:23:13] Who do I reach out to that possibly had this problem and could steer me in a way?

[00:23:18] Call Yoda.

[00:23:19] I'm like, Jeffrey, listen, I give Jeffrey a call.

[00:23:22] I, sorry, I call him Yoda.

[00:23:24] I might say that.

[00:23:25] He's like, that's my endearing term for him.

[00:23:27] But I say, no, I'm saying, listen, Jeff, I go, if you could go back and talk to yourself

[00:23:32] before you fired all the salespeople and did all that, would you have done it differently?

[00:23:36] And he's like, yeah, I would have.

[00:23:37] I'm like, all right, tell me.

[00:23:38] Cause I feel like I'm going down that river.

[00:23:40] And should I have like three rafts with me?

[00:23:43] Cause one's going to pop.

[00:23:44] Like, what do I do?

[00:23:45] Yeah.

[00:23:45] And he helps steer me and guide me in, in discussing how to pace out that process, my sales process

[00:23:52] a little bit longer.

[00:23:54] So I, I didn't really try to shrink the sales cycle to get a sale.

[00:23:59] Just I've kept them a little longer.

[00:24:00] And so things are, I've stretched things out.

[00:24:04] So I was stretching them out so we could fix operations, but still, still keep selling,

[00:24:11] but just not, and maybe it's aggressively as I was.

[00:24:14] Yeah.

[00:24:14] And so I took that approach and that's helped.

[00:24:17] So I had to fix operations.

[00:24:18] So that's what led me to, in Grocona last year, running into, uh, during a peer group

[00:24:25] meeting that Jeffrey was running, Jeffrey Newton and Robert Benton, uh, were running, uh, and

[00:24:31] then engaging with Robert Benton from, uh, InfoBridge.

[00:24:34] He's a past Marketopia client, a past MSP.

[00:24:38] He sold a couple of years ago for some mills.

[00:24:40] He did a great job, but now he's like helping mentor other MSPs and created, he, he created a

[00:24:47] company with another gentleman by the name of William Moynihan on how the operations need

[00:24:53] to run in an MSP.

[00:24:55] Mm-hmm .

[00:24:55] And, uh, so I was listening to his talk in that peer group at Grocon last year.

[00:25:00] And I really felt that, uh, you know, he said he's retired, but he just didn't seem like

[00:25:05] he was retired on the stage when he was talking.

[00:25:07] So right afterwards I introduced myself.

[00:25:09] We had some engaging conversations after Grocon and, uh,

[00:25:13] Did you say that?

[00:25:15] Excuse me?

[00:25:16] Did you say that?

[00:25:16] Right up to him.

[00:25:17] I walked right up to him and said, Robert, nice to meet you.

[00:25:19] You're not done yet.

[00:25:20] That's exactly what I said.

[00:25:22] And he laughed.

[00:25:23] He's like, what do you mean?

[00:25:23] I go, I can tell.

[00:25:24] I just, I can, I have that idea.

[00:25:26] I go, I, you know, you're not somebody just like done.

[00:25:28] Yeah.

[00:25:29] Well, little did I know that he's starting this company called InfoBridge, right?

[00:25:32] I could see that out of him.

[00:25:33] So we engage and, and sounds like what I need.

[00:25:37] I need you guys to come in and help look at our operations and help steer the ship.

[00:25:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:42] Right?

[00:25:43] So, uh, that's what we did.

[00:25:45] So we engage with InfoBridge and, uh, Robert, uh, was, is more, I don't know, he's not even

[00:25:52] a partner in that anymore.

[00:25:53] Like a year later, he, it's all now owned by William Moynihan directly.

[00:25:57] And William is our, in a sense, works as our fractional COO with our team and righted

[00:26:05] the ship.

[00:26:06] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:07] We had to, we figured out through the seven month journey that we've now been on with InfoBridge

[00:26:13] that we had some of the wrong people on the bus.

[00:26:16] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:17] And they were in the wrong seats.

[00:26:20] Yeah.

[00:26:20] So now we got the right people on the bus in the right seats and we're letting them

[00:26:24] drive the bus.

[00:26:25] There you go.

[00:26:26] And that, that is where, that is where the massive change again has happened here that

[00:26:35] Randy and I took the, not the gamble, but the smart educated business decision to, oh,

[00:26:43] we cancel this, excuse me, to engage with somebody outside, listen, shut up, and sort of be in

[00:26:53] the owner's seats a little bit and let our team go.

[00:26:57] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:57] That's huge.

[00:26:58] And that has been, now I just watched Jeff's talk on SIFT the other day to his employees

[00:27:03] and that's pretty much what he was talking about.

[00:27:05] You know how he likes to draw and he's drawing his visual concept.

[00:27:08] And I'm like, that's, that's what we have done.

[00:27:10] We have let them steer and, and be there as guide.

[00:27:15] Right?

[00:27:15] But that's more Williams job is the operational side.

[00:27:18] He's done this with multiple MSPs.

[00:27:20] He saw what our problems were, knows how to fix them, has helped.

[00:27:25] He says that what we've done in the last year and a half, in the last seven months is normally

[00:27:29] there's a year and a half because we've invested a lot in talent into staff, getting the right

[00:27:34] staff and, and making that six figure investment into that right off the bat so that we could

[00:27:42] just get everybody on the bus at the right time.

[00:27:44] Change our operational mindset to something that's more scalable and that's more organized

[00:27:51] that any team member can support, you know, and we, we ended up buying two buildings.

[00:27:58] So we're in, we're in 3000 square feet.

[00:28:00] So from the garage office and the basement office Randy had to now we did, we bought our office

[00:28:05] space in 2021 or 2020 right in COVID.

[00:28:10] So everybody was in COVID going home, working from home.

[00:28:14] Randy and I bought a building, brought our team together.

[00:28:16] That was another monumental change because you would have thought, Oh, everybody stayed home.

[00:28:21] It's COVID work from home.

[00:28:23] We were like, Hmm, you know what?

[00:28:24] We do things a little differently here at E3.

[00:28:27] And so we got this building.

[00:28:28] And then just last year we purchased the space next door.

[00:28:31] So we have 3000 square feet.

[00:28:33] That's where our network operations centers is located.

[00:28:36] Unifying that into one space, giving them the tools that they need to be successful.

[00:28:42] For our partners and our clients, that's been a big change, giving them the right tools.

[00:28:48] And then letting them use those tools.

[00:28:50] And then listening when maybe there's a better tool that they know about.

[00:28:53] So, and there are AI is happening tools are occurring all the time around us.

[00:28:58] So let's embrace and, and, uh, give, you give everybody access to that stuff and then learn ourselves, you know?

[00:29:06] So I want to kind of switch years.

[00:29:08] I've covered so much.

[00:29:10] Um, what's the biggest lesson we've learned over all these years?

[00:29:15] The biggest lesson.

[00:29:18] Hmm.

[00:29:20] That's a good one.

[00:29:21] Uh, I will say that.

[00:29:23] I did not know how much peer groups mattered.

[00:29:30] Peers mattered.

[00:29:35] We all don't have all the right answers.

[00:29:38] Right.

[00:29:39] I, I always took this approach.

[00:29:41] I coached a lot of sports in my time, youth sports.

[00:29:45] And I used to, you know, I played a lot of sports too.

[00:29:49] But when I started coaching them youths in particular, you know, five, six, seven year olds, 10 year olds in soccer, basketball, softball, baseball, whatever it was.

[00:29:59] I didn't invent any of those sports.

[00:30:02] None of them did I invent.

[00:30:04] I didn't create the rules.

[00:30:05] The rules are, those are the rules.

[00:30:08] So I had played them.

[00:30:10] I just didn't know how to coach them.

[00:30:12] So I would go in research and find coaches to teach me how to coach.

[00:30:17] Hmm.

[00:30:19] And in particular, in Little League International, there's, there was at one time back when my daughter was playing at eight in 2008, there were two people in the entire world that were sanctioned to teach coaches how to be a little league coach.

[00:30:33] That's it.

[00:30:34] They were sanctioned from Little League International.

[00:30:36] Wow.

[00:30:37] Their name, their, both of their names were Al.

[00:30:39] They were named Al and Al.

[00:30:41] Right.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:43] You couldn't make that one of them was semi pro ball player.

[00:30:45] The other, uh, might've played some pro ball.

[00:30:47] And so they created a plan and a system with, with workbooks and training.

[00:30:54] And I would go to their seminars, pay money and learn how to coach kids.

[00:30:58] And I brought all of that knowledge back to the fields and gave it to the eight year olds.

[00:31:05] All, all the other parents that were watching from the other teams were seeing something completely different than what they had ever seen how baseball was to be trained.

[00:31:14] Hmm.

[00:31:15] It was wonderful because I made them all baseball players.

[00:31:19] They all knew how to properly throw, hit, catch, run in done in a fun, unique way.

[00:31:25] But I didn't know that.

[00:31:27] I didn't know how to play the game.

[00:31:28] I just didn't know how to coach it.

[00:31:29] Yeah.

[00:31:30] So same thing correlates here.

[00:31:33] When I got into peer groups, I was finding out, wow, these are some other professionals in the industry that have all this knowledge.

[00:31:41] Let me listen to them, learn from them, go out to drinks with them, buy them.

[00:31:46] If you see Jeffrey's water cup, I bought him his water cup.

[00:31:49] He started his company, engage with them because they'll give back.

[00:31:53] Yeah.

[00:31:53] Be, be in and just be yourself when you're in there because that's what people want.

[00:31:59] That authenticity.

[00:32:00] They want it.

[00:32:00] They want you for who you are because everybody, if Jeffrey tried to be like me and try to be like, you'd be like, what's wrong with Jeff Newton?

[00:32:09] Jeffrey, he's very poised and polished and he's a very, and he, you know, he's, that's him and he's authentic in it.

[00:32:15] And I love that.

[00:32:16] Yeah.

[00:32:17] So, so that's what I learned.

[00:32:19] Those peer groups were magical because I have friends all over the country now.

[00:32:23] MSP relationships all over the country now.

[00:32:25] Mm hmm.

[00:32:27] Uh, one of them is possibly going to be bidding on a large project that we're working on now, like just from those engagements.

[00:32:34] Uh, the knowledge that I've learned in sales and marketing and in it and in business, like that, that to me is invaluable that, that engagement.

[00:32:46] And, uh, I would have, if I would have gone back, like I told this other people, if, when I joined Mark Tobia four years ago, I should have flown out there and visited the, if I was going to build that relationship the way I have.

[00:33:01] Uh, and I did unique, I should have known a little more than I did, you know, let my partner sort of handle it.

[00:33:07] Yeah, let's go for it.

[00:33:08] But I should have gone and see the people engage a little bit more than, cause I have done that throughout the years myself now, but that, that those, those peer groups are invaluable.

[00:33:18] Some aren't in them.

[00:33:19] I never was in a sense, uh, formally until I joined Mark Tobia.

[00:33:23] And then almost like I've just seen one yesterday, you know, cause we had our weekly peer group almost like you don't want to miss it.

[00:33:29] Yeah.

[00:33:29] Right there.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:30] Because you don't know what there could be missed.

[00:33:32] Uh, early on, I did find myself asking a lot of questions and now I hear me answering a lot of questions.

[00:33:41] So it's sort of like, I feel like I've gone through this little journey where now I'm getting back to some others as best I can, but I'm still learning.

[00:33:47] I'm still not there.

[00:33:48] I don't know what the end result is the end, you know, where this ends up because it started off as a technical computer a drafting company in my eyes.

[00:33:59] And now here we are as this, an MSP in the space in, in our, in a market that's growing, uh, with a client base that extends 20 plus years of clients that are, you know, been with us and trust in us to help steer their technology.

[00:34:15] So I don't know.

[00:34:16] I always used to joke with Ryan that, uh, maybe one day we'll be like Tesla engineer, uh, repairman, like somebody be pulling up with their Teslas and we'll be repairing Teslas.

[00:34:26] Cause there, there's so much technology in them.

[00:34:28] Just don't know where things are evolving.

[00:34:30] Cause it changes so drastically.

[00:34:32] I really feel, you know, that we are moving out of the MSP space here at E3 and we're becoming more of technology solution provider.

[00:34:41] Mm.

[00:34:42] Not, you know, that's what we're, that's where we're going.

[00:34:45] You know, MSP is sort of getting a different rap.

[00:34:49] It's a, it's a, it's a term.

[00:34:50] I think we need to, you know, think about just being a managed service provider.

[00:34:56] What's next?

[00:34:56] What's beyond that?

[00:34:58] What's the next thing that is that?

[00:35:01] Well, speaking of all that, you've learned so much, you've come so far.

[00:35:06] Uh, what is your biggest challenge?

[00:35:09] What do you frame as your biggest challenge right now?

[00:35:12] Right now, my biggest challenge, it seems to change throughout the months, but I would say five months ago, it was finding the right people to get on the bus.

[00:35:25] That was, that was a challenge.

[00:35:28] Uh, and that worried me because, because, uh, you know, I stumbled upon Ryan, you know, 15 years later, he's the operations manager.

[00:35:38] Uh, we brought on some other talent that we found out was a wrong talent and we had, they let them go.

[00:35:45] But I, I didn't know that.

[00:35:47] I thought maybe they were okay.

[00:35:49] Right.

[00:35:49] But going through and really looking at the, the, uh, analytics of what was, what's, what's happening.

[00:35:55] Right.

[00:35:55] So we got rid of that challenge.

[00:35:59] And, and, and if we did need, uh, to recruit or to bring in new, new, new, uh, new energy, new team members, we have a really good plan on how to do that now.

[00:36:12] Well, before we did it, it was just sort of like, you know, indeed, and all these weird ways that we were going about it.

[00:36:17] But now my challenge I feel is in 2025, my, my new challenges, we're bringing it in house now.

[00:36:29] So we're, we're, we, we're, we're going to try to bring in our outbound and do it in house now.

[00:36:37] Instead of, instead of relying on, uh, just Marketopia, we're still going to use some Marketopia services, but we're going to bring it in.

[00:36:44] So that's my next newest challenge.

[00:36:46] Have I done this before?

[00:36:47] No.

[00:36:49] Do I think that I can succeed in it?

[00:36:51] Yes.

[00:36:51] Will I reach out to my peers where I need to?

[00:36:55] Absolutely.

[00:36:55] Yeah.

[00:36:56] Uh, and so that's my next challenge, but with every challenge, I have goals that are going to be set.

[00:37:02] And then when they're checked off and we reach those goals, a little dopamine drip will happen.

[00:37:07] I feel good about myself.

[00:37:08] I'm like, all right, that'll work.

[00:37:09] Great.

[00:37:10] What's next?

[00:37:11] What's the next thing?

[00:37:12] You know, that's why I like this business because it is ever changing.

[00:37:17] Uh, and I am moving into the, uh, the, the owner's box world.

[00:37:24] And, uh, there is a challenge with that, but, uh, I will thank Arlen Sorensen for his daily thoughts from the farm that I read every day.

[00:37:41] Right.

[00:38:03] Yeah.

[00:38:04] I want to, I want to build a business here that people can come in and feel that they're not at work, that they're at home.

[00:38:15] Helping people be productive and happy.

[00:38:19] That's our vision here.

[00:38:21] That's really, that's our vision.

[00:38:22] We use technology to make them happy and productive because when that technology is not working, you are not happy and you're not productive.

[00:38:29] So if we can keep that as our vision then, and so as long as we do that, people can buy houses and have cars and go on vacations and enjoy their lives.

[00:38:39] Like that's the win.

[00:38:40] That's, that's the win.

[00:38:40] It's not, to me, it's not about some exit goal or some number map.

[00:38:46] It's not about that.

[00:38:47] I believe that will all just happen.

[00:38:50] If you do it right.

[00:38:51] It'll just be there.

[00:38:53] If you strive and think and sculpt it, I don't know how well that works out in the end because I've heard different stories.

[00:39:00] But I think if you're just authentic and you build a quality business with quality people focused on helping others, it'll all work out.

[00:39:13] What's one thing you wish you could do over or do differently?

[00:39:17] I would have engaged in sales sooner and then found somebody to get me leads that led the sales that lead the profit.

[00:39:30] Because I think getting leads is a complicated thing to do.

[00:39:37] Yeah.

[00:39:38] Qualified leads is even more difficult.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:43] Knowing how to ask for the sale in a business conversation probably doesn't happen often in the MSP world.

[00:39:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:39:54] So if you could sort of just build a process a little bit and know a little bit more about how to do that, then get leads.

[00:40:04] You'll be – I'd be more prepared.

[00:40:06] I would have not lost so many of those early on deals, which would have led to some profits.

[00:40:14] So that's where I would have gone back and done that – and done that whole process that I did in 2020.

[00:40:20] I wish I would have done that five years sooner.

[00:40:23] You know, like started the journey towards growth sooner than we did because, you know, time is, you know, ticking away.

[00:40:33] And it does work when you put that work and energy into it.

[00:40:38] Like I said, we've – how do we grow 45%?

[00:40:41] Listen to this, Dean, if you look at it.

[00:40:43] We grew 25%, 25%.

[00:40:45] And I was selling deals.

[00:40:47] Now I'm not having signed deals.

[00:40:49] And we grew – we're growing 45%.

[00:40:51] Yeah.

[00:40:52] All right.

[00:40:53] So part of that is the operational maturity that we fixed.

[00:40:58] Yeah, it's incredible that we've segmented our company into groups properly.

[00:41:03] So just looking at what Design Desk is now doing compared to how we were doing that before, wow.

[00:41:09] And the reoccurring revenue that's driven out of that as well.

[00:41:13] So we were – you know, it's all coming together.

[00:41:17] We're still in process here, you know.

[00:41:20] We're WIP.

[00:41:21] You know what WIP is?

[00:41:22] Work in process, right?

[00:41:22] That's us.

[00:41:23] And we're still – it's still happening.

[00:41:26] But at least we have a much better direction than like crossing our fingers and hope that we can get all this work done.

[00:41:35] Yeah.

[00:41:35] And everybody scatterbrained in a way like we were a year and a half ago with every project.

[00:41:40] Everybody knew this.

[00:41:41] And then some really new cool tools that have come out, right?

[00:41:45] And like Jeffrey, his SIFT tool, right?

[00:41:50] I think I'm number one on the list for the beta for the data RMM, the Autotask version, right?

[00:41:58] Because those new tools are going to come out.

[00:42:00] And what's that – how does that change things?

[00:42:04] It's constantly changing.

[00:42:05] It's never still.

[00:42:07] It's always changing.

[00:42:09] And adapting to it.

[00:42:11] Change.

[00:42:11] You might have heard me say this multiple times throughout this video.

[00:42:17] Change is the key here.

[00:42:20] I was able to change throughout the journey.

[00:42:25] Randy was able to change throughout his journey.

[00:42:29] That's how we got to where we were.

[00:42:31] If we said, no, I'm not changing.

[00:42:33] I'm not going to do it that way.

[00:42:34] Well, it's going to be very complicated to sustain and grow your business.

[00:42:38] Whatever it is, I don't care what business you're in.

[00:42:40] You have to adapt to change properly.

[00:42:42] Pivot when needed to.

[00:42:44] And we've been able to successfully do that and build something now that is sustained for 20 – really, RC computers – been sustained for 30 years plus.

[00:42:58] Yeah.

[00:42:58] Right?

[00:42:59] Very few people can say that.

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:01] Yeah, for sure.

[00:43:02] What is something you're looking forward to right now, Ron?

[00:43:06] Looking forward to?

[00:43:08] Oh, wow.

[00:43:09] Hmm.

[00:43:11] What am I looking forward to?

[00:43:13] 2025, I am looking forward to the evolution of the people here.

[00:43:24] We're seeing how they have just – just from what we have done, how they have changed just in months.

[00:43:38] And some of them are brand new.

[00:43:40] Some of them are four months here.

[00:43:41] But in four months, seeing how they change.

[00:43:45] For example, one of our engineers came on board and we didn't know that they were like working on the side doing some driving, lift driving.

[00:43:54] And the deal that they were doing was that they get a car.

[00:43:58] Lift gives you a car, but then you have to drive for a lift and they give you this car.

[00:44:01] And I'm like, what?

[00:44:04] We helping them buy a car.

[00:44:05] Right?

[00:44:06] That seems to make such a massive change in him.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:11] And I was like, it's just a material object car.

[00:44:14] Not even the greatest car.

[00:44:16] But it was a car.

[00:44:17] It's his car now.

[00:44:18] And he has that.

[00:44:18] We helped him do that.

[00:44:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:22] I want to do more of that.

[00:44:23] More of those impactful things.

[00:44:27] Community, I'm going to be diving more into the schools in our region and educating more in regards to the technology that is available today that people don't even know.

[00:44:38] And what's coming and how to utilize it and the fun of it.

[00:44:43] I just found this really cool educational AI training for children.

[00:44:47] It's a workbook.

[00:44:49] I'm going to order it and check it out.

[00:44:51] Because I think that's where I think my next level of change is going to be impactful.

[00:44:57] Yeah, I'm going to do some sales here and there.

[00:45:00] I'm hopefully going to try to maybe bring somebody in over time.

[00:45:04] Get to that $5 million mark.

[00:45:06] But let's keep the 45% growth going.

[00:45:08] Yeah.

[00:45:08] Some acquisitions.

[00:45:09] I am looking forward to an acquisition.

[00:45:11] Randy and I are mergers.

[00:45:13] But I am looking forward to landing an acquisition in 2025.

[00:45:19] That's a lot.

[00:45:20] Well, here, I'll give you this to sort of summarize up.

[00:45:24] In the 90s, I worked for that ProTech Resource Corporation.

[00:45:28] There was a gentleman that owned a company called CSI, Computer Systems Integrated.

[00:45:35] They built computers in the 90s and sold them.

[00:45:40] Not a lot of companies were doing that successfully.

[00:45:41] This gentleman was.

[00:45:43] And the president of the company that I worked for got engaged with him.

[00:45:49] And that person and his team serviced all our technology.

[00:45:53] So when we needed a new computer, I was the CAD draftsman.

[00:45:56] When we needed a new monitor, we would get it through them, right?

[00:45:59] All of that was sourced through them.

[00:46:01] And the owner, his name was Jerry Abay.

[00:46:04] Jerry would come to the office and do the work at times.

[00:46:08] And I would follow him around like an 18, 19-year-old kid because I was 18, 19.

[00:46:12] I'd follow him around.

[00:46:13] I'd look over his shoulder while he was doing stuff.

[00:46:15] Okay, P console.

[00:46:16] He's doing Novell stuff.

[00:46:17] I'm grabbing information.

[00:46:19] That went on for about nine years.

[00:46:21] And then Randy came in the very end.

[00:46:25] When I started TechCAD and then turned it into a computer company, my mind went, oh, shoot, Jerry Abay.

[00:46:31] Let me reach out to him.

[00:46:32] So I reached out to him.

[00:46:33] Can't find him.

[00:46:33] Doesn't return to call.

[00:46:35] You know, all these years go by.

[00:46:38] A couple years ago, I go, let me reach out to Jerry Abay again.

[00:46:41] I reached out to him.

[00:46:42] He's like, he answers.

[00:46:43] We go do lunch.

[00:46:44] He hasn't changed much.

[00:46:46] I've evolved into an MSP.

[00:46:48] I told him my journey.

[00:46:50] He's looking possibly someday to maybe exit.

[00:46:53] He's about 72.

[00:46:54] Does it, you know?

[00:46:56] So we're sort of engaging over time to see if we could build a relationship up to bring him on board,

[00:47:03] to give him an exit strategy.

[00:47:05] He's like 72, 73.

[00:47:06] He's about ready to.

[00:47:08] And services clients in a unique way.

[00:47:11] So that would be that.

[00:47:12] But that's a full circle of 30 years.

[00:47:15] We've known each other through some space, through technology.

[00:47:19] Again, relationships, technology.

[00:47:20] They seem to span decades.

[00:47:22] And if I can make that, that would be an acquisition.

[00:47:25] But I think that's going to happen a lot in 2025.

[00:47:28] And smaller, you know, call them.

[00:47:32] I was one.

[00:47:33] So I could say trunk slammers.

[00:47:34] You know, I was one for years.

[00:47:37] Those are going to want to maybe just move it a little too fast for me.

[00:47:41] Oh, I can't service that client that way.

[00:47:43] Let's unite.

[00:47:44] Let's, you know, that's what's going to happen.

[00:47:46] Let's bring it together and help them out.

[00:47:48] Help the client out.

[00:47:49] And then also help those smaller guys out that are going to sort of just, I think it's just going to happen.

[00:47:54] I'm glad I'm not there anymore.

[00:47:56] I'm glad we made these changes because that's really complex to do what they're doing now.

[00:47:59] To re-break fix in this arena.

[00:48:02] I don't envy them.

[00:48:03] Yeah.

[00:48:04] What's the one book you would recommend?

[00:48:09] The Fred Factor.

[00:48:10] It would be the one book I would recommend.

[00:48:14] The Fred Factor.

[00:48:15] The Fred Factor.

[00:48:16] Yeah, read that one.

[00:48:18] It just really talks about a mailman.

[00:48:20] It's a story of a mailman.

[00:48:24] And I'm going to leave it at that.

[00:48:26] You have to read it.

[00:48:27] If anybody's in business, it's mandatory reading here at E3.

[00:48:30] Like, you have to read this book.

[00:48:32] It's an easy, easy read, Damien.

[00:48:33] If you see it, like, there's like that much text on each page.

[00:48:36] You know, it's my kind of reading.

[00:48:37] It's my kind of reading, right?

[00:48:40] But that one is, that one I would say read that.

[00:48:44] It's a quick read, but it will change the way you see servicing others.

[00:48:50] Okay.

[00:48:52] Another one, rating fans.

[00:48:54] Always a good one.

[00:48:55] That's a good book.

[00:48:56] And I'm reading right now Good to Great by Jim Collins.

[00:48:59] That's a tough read.

[00:49:01] Not a tough read, but it's a, I'm a, I have to read and then like think about it.

[00:49:06] Maybe right in the margins of the book, you know?

[00:49:09] So it takes me longer to read books than like my partner.

[00:49:12] I mean, he just eats through books and he can read them faster than anybody.

[00:49:16] I just don't digest them that way, but it's the way that my brain works.

[00:49:19] But so that one's fascinating.

[00:49:22] Really seeing how some of these companies went from good to great.

[00:49:26] How certain leadership ruined it.

[00:49:28] How certain leadership made the companies great.

[00:49:32] And if I could pull nuggets out of those, those chapters and implement pieces of them here.

[00:49:38] Again, I didn't invent business.

[00:49:40] I didn't invent how they're to run, but every business is different, right?

[00:49:44] So you can put our own little flair into things.

[00:49:47] That's why I always say about us here at E3, the way that we bake our cake is a little different than the other MSPs.

[00:49:54] And I think a lot of it stems from Randy and mine experience.

[00:49:58] Mine being in so much in engineering and Randy's with so much in technology.

[00:50:02] And bringing that all together has made this unique entity for E3.

[00:50:08] So it's folks that are listening.

[00:50:09] How can they find you?

[00:50:10] Oh, you connect with me on LinkedIn.

[00:50:12] You can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:50:13] Let's look up Ron Opperman.

[00:50:14] You can hit me up by email.

[00:50:15] You'll see me at Grocon.

[00:50:17] I don't know if some of you guys are going down to Grocon.

[00:50:19] I think, Damian, you're heading to Grocon as well?

[00:50:20] I'll be there.

[00:50:21] Be at Grocon.

[00:50:22] I'm sure.

[00:50:23] Terry probably will have me maybe pull me out in some session somewhere.

[00:50:26] But anyway, I can give back.

[00:50:27] I'm at that spot now where I – and I'm loving to learn more.

[00:50:32] So it's, hey, if you're an MSP of two, three people in your firm and you want to grow,

[00:50:39] I have some ideas for you.

[00:50:41] Hey, if you're an MSP at five to six, seven, eight million, hey, let's talk because I want

[00:50:46] to hear what you did to get there, right?

[00:50:47] It's that whole journey in between.

[00:50:49] Now, I think I saw on one of your podcasts, somebody's like 500 million or 600 million.

[00:50:55] I'll wait six years to talk to them.

[00:50:56] I don't want to be cluttered.

[00:50:57] That's too much head trash for me right now.

[00:51:00] But I live in that smaller arena though.

[00:51:02] Yeah.

[00:51:02] You know what I mean?

[00:51:03] That's fascinating though.

[00:51:05] Like, wow, I dive into that story.

[00:51:07] It shows you how far we can go, right?

[00:51:10] So an amazing offer you just made and is what's so wonderful about our industry is that you're

[00:51:16] willing to learn and you're willing to give back.

[00:51:19] So if you're listening, take Ron up on that offer.

[00:51:23] Ron, this has been an amazing gift.

[00:51:25] Thank you for being on MSP Minds Club.

[00:51:27] Ditto.

[00:51:27] Thank you for having me.

[00:51:29] I appreciate it.

[00:51:30] Yeah, this has been so much fun.