From IT Entrepreneur to Mentor: Arlin Sorenson’s Path to Helping Others Succeed

[00:00:00] They have this false conception that, hey, I got up and worked every day and worked my

[00:00:05] butt off, you know, for the last 25 or 30 years. Somebody's going to write me a check for that

[00:00:11] at some point. And, you know, the reality is people don't pay for hard work. You get your

[00:00:17] paycheck for working hard. You don't create value by working hard. You create value by having a plan,

[00:00:23] sticking to the plan and following that plan and doing it day after day. But there's

[00:00:28] got to be a plan. Hey, guys, welcome to this episode of MSP Mindset. I'm your host, Damien Stevens,

[00:00:40] and I am so excited to talk with Arlen Sorensen. You may know him as the guy, the Iowa farm boy,

[00:00:48] the built Harlan technology solutions from serving a teeny tiny community of 15,000 people

[00:00:55] to several million of revenue to acquiring tons of companies, to being over 100 employees in

[00:01:01] more than 17 million revenue. You may know him as the founder of Hartman HDG peer groups,

[00:01:08] or what is now known as Connectwise Evolve. Either way, if you don't know him,

[00:01:12] you're going to want to know him because he not only built an incredibly successful MSP

[00:01:17] in a cornfield in Iowa, he also built the most respected largest peer group in the entire

[00:01:25] IT industry and has some an amazing heart for people and some amazing insights. So if that

[00:01:31] piqued your interest, stay tuned and listen. There's more to come. You've built these, not

[00:01:37] only peer groups, but it seems to be with so many MSPs not only changing their business,

[00:01:42] but changing their life, how they spend in their time. So I'm curious why

[00:01:50] did you start this? What catalyzed that for or crystallized that for you?

[00:01:54] Well, to be honest, I started peer groups for my own benefit. So coming out of Y2K,

[00:02:05] I bought into the whole idea that this was going to be the greatest event in the history of

[00:02:10] technology and I staffed up. I hired 10 extra people in 1999 to be ready for Y2K

[00:02:18] and it didn't come to Iowa at all. So by the end of the first quarter, we were really,

[00:02:25] really bleeding cash and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong and why we weren't able

[00:02:32] to capitalize on this thing. And so actually one of the guys on my leadership team said,

[00:02:38] we should just talk to some other partners and find out what's going on. So

[00:02:43] we randomly called three other companies in Iowa and said, hey, would you meet us in Des Moines for

[00:02:48] a half a day and just compare notes? We're interested in hearing what's going on with

[00:02:53] your businesses and we'll share what we're seeing. And they showed up and we spent

[00:02:59] actually a full day together talking not only about that, that didn't take long because nobody

[00:03:04] had any Y2K business. So you learned that quickly. But we did share all kinds of other

[00:03:11] things about our companies and what that did for me, Damien, was propel me to come home and do

[00:03:17] the hardest thing I had ever done in my business career, which was to let 10 people go. I had

[00:03:23] never downsized any but had we not done that, had I not had the confidence because of talking to

[00:03:31] others and getting their valuable insight, I would have tried to hang on to those people

[00:03:37] and it very well could have been the end of our company. So that's how it started. And from there,

[00:03:44] we just kept meeting and people would hear about it and say, hey, I want to be in that group.

[00:03:50] So I never intended for it to be more than one group. We were going to have 12 companies and we

[00:03:56] were going to just have a little local Iowa, you know, in surrounding states kind of thing and

[00:04:03] get together and just share notes. And but after a few years, we got to 12 and there were people

[00:04:10] still coming and saying, hey, I want, I went in. I said, no, 12 is all we can really deal with at a

[00:04:17] time. So I'll put you on a waiting list. And in 2005, we had 30 companies on the waiting list.

[00:04:24] And they said, well, maybe, maybe there's enough crazy people to do another group. And

[00:04:29] so we started one and we started another one. And from there, it just kind of took off and

[00:04:35] grew rapidly. I went to a conference out in Redmond, SMB Nation back in 2007.

[00:04:44] And we went from the three groups that we had to nine groups in one day. And at that point,

[00:04:52] I wasn't ready to manage nine groups. So we had, we had a lot of work to do to begin to

[00:04:58] build the framework and the platform and the content and all that stuff. And build the engine

[00:05:04] to make it go. So tell me about that since you, if I understand what you're saying, right, Arlen,

[00:05:11] you didn't set out with this big vision that was anything like it is today.

[00:05:17] I didn't even have a napkin with a picture on it.

[00:05:21] I love it. So what, let's step back a minute because I've never been in HTG or Connector

[00:05:29] was evolve. I've just heard amazing things. I used to be an MSP, but I feel like I missed out there.

[00:05:35] So if everybody that's not in one now, it's listening to this. What is involved

[00:05:42] in being in a peer in this kind of peer group? Yeah. I mean, so the foundation that makes

[00:05:48] peer groups work is really the willingness to be a go-giver. And, you know,

[00:05:56] Bob Berg and John David Mann wrote the book called The Go-Giver back in 2008, which has

[00:06:01] really become kind of the, the culture book for, for the peer groups that we operate now.

[00:06:08] HTG now connect wise evolve. You have to come to the meeting not concerned with what you're

[00:06:15] going to go home with as much as how am I going to help everybody else in the room

[00:06:19] with some valuable information that will help them grow their business. And when everybody comes

[00:06:25] with that as the motivation, magic happens. You know what we do from a programmatic perspective,

[00:06:33] we benchmark financials using service leadership's benchmarking index. So

[00:06:39] everybody puts their financials in every quarter. And, you know, the SLI benchmarking tool will then

[00:06:46] help us understand what best in class looks like the top quartile. So everybody knows what they're

[00:06:52] chasing. And then the group can help hold people accountable and identify what are the

[00:06:57] areas you need to work on this quarter to get better. And, you know, rising tide lifts

[00:07:03] all boats financially. I was in a peer group prior to starting HTG back in the 90s. And all we

[00:07:13] did really was focus on financials. And that to me was not a balanced approach, which is why

[00:07:19] HTG really came to be was let's also focus on life, legacy and leadership along with our,

[00:07:27] with our businesses. And so that's the framework we use even today is, you know, we have a we

[00:07:35] have a manual that we call path to success. And it really helps people write four different plans.

[00:07:45] We ask everybody to write a legacy plan, which is really the foundational plan. It's the long

[00:07:51] term, you know, what are you trying to accomplish long term? And we ask them to look at it for their

[00:07:58] life and for their business. And that's that's the ongoing plan that we manage to review annually

[00:08:05] and have everybody update. And then every quarter, we focus on either a life plan, which is,

[00:08:13] what am I going to do in the next 12 months with my time talent and treasure in my life?

[00:08:19] A leadership plan. So how am I going to grow as a leader myself and how am I going to invest in the

[00:08:24] people around me to help them become better leaders? And then our business plan. So those three

[00:08:31] are annual plans that are all connected to the legacy plan that really guides the long term

[00:08:37] direction. You know, if people will do those things, update those plans and manage to those

[00:08:45] plans, that's where we see real impact happen. And people focus on the important things in their

[00:08:53] life, their family, their kids, their spouse, friends, and they have really objectives and

[00:09:02] things they're trying to do specifically with that time. Same thing with leadership. A lot of

[00:09:10] entrepreneurs, a lot of MSPs, if they're the owner, they don't think they need to grow. They

[00:09:16] don't need to learn. They don't need to become better leaders. But if they're going to have a

[00:09:20] growing company, they have to become better leaders. And so having a plan for what you're

[00:09:25] going to do, what you're going to work on and how you're going to get there really is

[00:09:28] helpful. And then the peer group holds people accountable to all those things. So

[00:09:34] they help make sure that, you know, if you say, this is what I plan to do in my life,

[00:09:41] but when you come back the next quarter, you have to defend the goals that you've set around that.

[00:09:46] And if you don't achieve those things, the peer group's going to push and say, hey,

[00:09:51] you said you were going to do this, you know, why didn't you do it? So that's really kind

[00:09:56] of the framework that makes it all work. It's people being invested in one another

[00:10:02] and focused on helping each other grow and become better. And that's what makes everybody

[00:10:07] successful together. I love that. So I appreciate you unpacking that because there's a lot of

[00:10:16] peer groups, quote unquote out there that they're not sharing financials. They're not talking

[00:10:23] about annual plan. They're definitely not talking about a legacy plan. You know, there's

[00:10:27] there's a lot of groups that they're just less. They are maybe hold me accountable,

[00:10:34] maybe some form of a mastermind, you know, sharing ideas, not saying any of that's bad. I've

[00:10:40] been in a number, but that really helps me understand. And I love how you tied it back to

[00:10:49] if you have that plan, you know how you can spend time with your family.

[00:10:54] Yeah, exactly. Spend time to develop your team. I mean, the biggest value to a plan Damien is it

[00:11:00] tells you when to say no. Because if it's not in the plan, you got two choices. You say no,

[00:11:07] or you have to change the plan. You can't just add things on constantly because all of us have

[00:11:13] plates that are already full. And so if we add something onto our plate, something's going

[00:11:19] to fall off. And unfortunately, a lot of times that's the important stuff. And so the plans help us

[00:11:25] know what we're committing to and give us the ability to say no. And you know, that's something

[00:11:32] we have to learn as we lead companies because there's all kinds of things we can do with our

[00:11:36] with our businesses that are good. But we can't necessarily do them all because we don't have

[00:11:42] the time calendar treasure to make it happen. So, you know, the planning discipline is really,

[00:11:48] really important. And with business plans in particular, a lot of people write down a lot

[00:11:55] of lofty ideas. The real key to a business plan is let me see your budget. If you don't have a

[00:12:03] detailed budget and you're not managing to the budget, you don't really have a business

[00:12:07] plan. You just got some ideas you wrote down on a piece of paper. You know, it's those kind of things

[00:12:12] that allow us to through peer groups, hold people accountable and push them forward. And, you know,

[00:12:20] it's okay to change your plan, but you just have to understand that when you change it,

[00:12:26] something's got to go if you're going to add something to it.

[00:12:29] I love that. I feel like you're speaking to me and every MSP and business owner when you

[00:12:35] say that, that you have to say no. Right? That plan allows you to say no and understand. Right? Because

[00:12:42] it's at least we'll speak for myself as a business owner is very tempting. Oh man, there's this new

[00:12:47] opportunity. There's a new client in a new industry. Maybe we could start doing the new

[00:12:52] industry and new compliance and new, oh, and of course, if we're in technology,

[00:12:56] there's always some shiny thing we could chase, right? Absolutely.

[00:13:00] There's just so many easy paths to distractions. And at least in my case,

[00:13:06] you could do them in the name of helping my client, my team grow, you know what I mean? So

[00:13:13] if you're not laser focused on that goal, it's too easy to let these little, you know,

[00:13:19] maybe not bad things, but they're not the priorities. Like you said, the other

[00:13:24] the priorities that are more important will fall off your, fall off your plate. Well, we teach a

[00:13:29] principle called HABU, H-A-B-U, which stands for highest and best use. And everybody in an

[00:13:37] organization needs to identify what their highest and best use is. There's lots of good things

[00:13:42] we can all do. And there's nothing wrong with good things except that when you do good

[00:13:48] things, you're not going to necessarily do the great things or the things that are

[00:13:51] highest and best use for you. There's a lot of things in a business that only a business owner

[00:13:58] can do. And if they get wrapped up chasing shiny objects or get in the weeds on certain things,

[00:14:04] they're probably not going to do a great job at things like focusing on value creation.

[00:14:11] I mean, owners don't seem to put the dots together that nobody else in their organization

[00:14:17] wakes up in the morning wondering how they can make their business more valuable today.

[00:14:22] They wake up, hey, I'm working for a paycheck. This is what I'm getting paid to do.

[00:14:28] They're not thinking about value creation. And you know, a lot of owners aren't thinking

[00:14:33] about it either until they get ready to try to transition and they can't sell their company

[00:14:38] for anywhere close to what they really need to be able to sell it for to have the lifestyle they

[00:14:43] want to have. You know, it's a real problem in our industry as folks are getting toward

[00:14:49] retirement age and they're looking for a way to exit. And they have this false conception that,

[00:14:56] hey, I got up and worked every day and worked my butt off, you know, for the last 25 or 30 years,

[00:15:03] somebody's going to write me a check for that at some point. And, you know, the reality is

[00:15:08] people don't pay for hard work. You get your paycheck for working hard, you don't create

[00:15:13] value by working hard. You create value by having a plan, sticking to the plan and following that

[00:15:19] plan and doing it day after day. But there's got to be a plan. And that's a missing link for a lot

[00:15:25] of MSPs today. They've never stopped and created a plan. I love that. So I love that you having

[00:15:33] to turn the plan in and be accountable. How do you help them understand their highest and best

[00:15:41] use their Habu? Habu. Yeah. Habu. Okay. How do you help them understand their Habu for them,

[00:15:48] for their team, management, you know, non-management? We do a lot of educating, right? We do a lot of

[00:15:55] talking about it. So the structure of our peer groups are two day meetings. So half of our

[00:16:02] groups meet on a Monday, Tuesday, half meet on a Thursday, Friday. Wednesday is our community

[00:16:08] day. So that's where we educate everybody together. And we bring in speakers and deliver content to help

[00:16:16] people figure out those kind of things. So, you know, we run workshops and different ways to

[00:16:22] really help people slow down number one and just think about who they are, what their strengths

[00:16:28] are, what their company really needs and do some evaluation. A lot of our members use EOS as a

[00:16:35] platform for planning and, you know, EOS has some strong tools to rating your team in terms of their

[00:16:42] skill sets and those kind of things. So, you know, there's lots of ways we try to get to that. But

[00:16:49] the reality is that what people need to do is just take a breath and slow down and reflect

[00:16:56] and look in the mirror as to who they are and look around their team. And it's really not

[00:17:02] rocket science. We all know what we're good at and we know what we're not good at. And, you know,

[00:17:07] the unfortunate reality is that a lot of us spend too much time trying to fix what we're not good

[00:17:12] at instead of leveraging what we are good at and letting somebody else take care of the things

[00:17:17] we're not good at. You know, I'm not a detail guy. And I absolutely know that if we get

[00:17:24] into the detail weeds, I'm not going to do a good job because my attention span is too short

[00:17:31] and I just am not dialed in there. So I have people on my team that are really good at that.

[00:17:36] And so, you know, once I get something started, it's handed off and let somebody else that can

[00:17:43] really take it and make it into what it needs to be, take over. So it's just an understanding

[00:17:50] who we are and where we're gifted and where we're not and surrounding ourselves with people

[00:17:55] that can step up and help us get things done. Right. Yeah, I think it might start all the way

[00:18:02] back in school where we're taught to make everything equal instead of focus on your zone of genius or

[00:18:09] unique ability or a habu or however you want to frame it, right? When that's what's going to

[00:18:16] create value, right? Absolutely. For your clients, for your team. Let me step back. I want to

[00:18:23] stop where we are, but I want to come back and say how did you go and why is it called

[00:18:29] Heartland Technology Group? And how did you get started with this before? Let me step back to

[00:18:35] the AG. So tell me about that. And you started with, I guess, technology and agriculture. Tell

[00:18:40] me about how that got started. Yeah, so I mean, I'm a simple Iowa farm boy. That is who I am.

[00:18:47] I grew up on a farm. I went to Iowa State University, took farm operations as my degree,

[00:18:54] graduated in 1977, came back to the family farm and was working with my dad and brother when

[00:19:01] in 1982 I bought an Apple II plus computer and bought a farm accounting package. That was my excuse

[00:19:09] for being able to buy it. And you know, I did, I did some accounting on it and fell in love

[00:19:15] with technology and started a little hobby business where I would help friends and neighbors

[00:19:21] we'd jump in a car drive down to Omaha and I'd help them pick out their computer and come back

[00:19:27] and set it up for them and teach them. And you know, in 1985, it was like, well, this is

[00:19:34] starting to take quite a bit of time. So I either have to get paid some for this or not do it.

[00:19:41] And so I started a little hobby business. And that began to really take off. And then in 1990,

[00:19:49] we started a company and began to really pursue technology as something we wanted to do. So,

[00:19:58] you know, I was, I started that company and we grew it by 2000. You know, we were about 25

[00:20:07] people that we had grown to 35 with I2K coming and, you know, decided that we were kind of capped

[00:20:16] out here. I live, I live in rural Iowa. You know, our county is only 15,000 people. We were doing

[00:20:23] about 4 million in revenue and we got stuck there couldn't figure out how to get any go any

[00:20:29] further. So that's when I decided if we're going to grow, we're going to have to get into

[00:20:33] other markets. And we decided to do that through M&A. And over the next 10 years, we did, we did eight

[00:20:41] acquisitions across five states in the Midwest here and grew to about 100 people

[00:20:48] and about 17 million in revenue. And so, you know, it just, it just gradually took off and kept

[00:20:54] going. We stayed focused on, you know, smaller markets. You know, our strategy was not to go

[00:21:01] into the big cities but to land outside the cities, you know, within 30, 40 miles and serve those rural

[00:21:09] areas. And if we wanted to go into the bigger cities, we could strike from the outside, but we

[00:21:14] didn't want to compete day to day with companies in the metros. And that served us well. You know,

[00:21:21] we served a lot of small customers, but customers that needed technology and we were able to bring

[00:21:27] it to them and help them use it to drive their businesses. So that was really a foundation and

[00:21:34] the peer groups kind of grew out of that from a need that we had on our own to really understand

[00:21:40] what was going on in the market back in 2000 around Y2K. Have you ever wondered if you could

[00:21:49] recover your backups? Let me ask a better question. Have you ever had a backup fail

[00:21:54] to recover? Have you ever lost data? Yeah, that's me. Here's what's crazy. 58% of recoveries fail

[00:22:00] to recover. So if you think it's just you, you couldn't be more wrong. What are we going to do

[00:22:06] about that? Well, you've got two options. Enter servosity. What we do and what we exist to do

[00:22:12] is test your backups and manage them for you. We test every volume, every single day. We do

[00:22:18] weekly testing, monthly testing and quarterly testing. And you can hand off the drudgery and

[00:22:23] babysitting of backups and the day-to-day management to our team that monitors your backups for you.

[00:22:29] It's time to level up your backup game. One way you can do that is visit servosity.com

[00:22:33] slash learn more. If you'd like to take the process that I've spent the last 18 years building

[00:22:39] and steal it and apply it to your MSP so that you can level up your backup game,

[00:22:44] check out the link below in the description or visit servosity.com slash learn more.

[00:22:51] So you started the peer groups before your first acquisition. Is that right?

[00:22:56] We did. Yep. Okay. So your business and you call it an MSP, a TSP or something else?

[00:23:05] What would you call it? I worked at VAR at the time because MSP really didn't come into being

[00:23:09] until like 2005-2006. So we were selling a lot of hardware and doing a lot of services

[00:23:19] and projects to put that hardware in. And we were doing some proactive site visits for people.

[00:23:28] So it was kind of a really early form of many services, but very much hardware focused and

[00:23:34] those kinds of things. But yeah, we were on a path of really trying to figure out how to grow

[00:23:41] the company and kind of ran into a wall ourselves. So that's where we reached out to other partners

[00:23:50] and began to get perspective and learned that there was a lot we could learn from one another

[00:23:55] if we just spent some time sitting down and talking to each other. And the early years,

[00:24:01] there was this fear of, oh, we're competing with each other and you're going to get my

[00:24:07] secret sauce. And the internet kind of took away that because there was no secret sauce,

[00:24:16] number one. And number two, if there was, it was available online, you could figure it out.

[00:24:22] That rapidly kind of went away. Today, everybody can beats everywhere globally. So

[00:24:28] competition really isn't a concern for people anymore, which makes triggers really work well.

[00:24:35] Right. Right. So I love that you started the peer groups

[00:24:44] because you needed it. You didn't start a peer group to say, I need to start a peer group. It

[00:24:49] sounds like I got to solve this problem. There was no business plan. It was, man,

[00:24:54] who can we talk to that's smarter than us that can help us understand what we should be doing?

[00:24:59] And no better place than to go find some peers that are doing the same things we're doing

[00:25:06] that can give us perspective. There's a lot of peer groups in a cross industry, which are great

[00:25:12] in a local area to get to know others. But the value of what we do with ConnectWise Evolve is

[00:25:20] that we are all in the same industry. We're all facing the same challenges.

[00:25:27] We all really can relate to one another. And so what we share together is something we can take

[00:25:34] home immediately and put to work. And that's really what we challenge members to do is just

[00:25:40] find one thing every time we get together. If you go make that change in your business,

[00:25:46] two years from now, it'll look completely different. And you don't have to make giant

[00:25:51] changes. You just have to be consistent and execute a single change every quarter.

[00:25:56] And it revolutionizes not only businesses, but a lot of the changes that people have to make

[00:26:02] are with their life or with how they lead. And so we encourage people to identify that.

[00:26:12] At every meeting you set goals, right? We write those things down and you have

[00:26:16] to come back next quarter and defend what you did with those. And that's the accountability

[00:26:22] that helps keep moving people forward. So I needed that, which is one of the values that I got out

[00:26:29] of that first peer group was all of a sudden I was being accountable to somebody other than myself.

[00:26:35] You know as business owners we own businesses because we want to be in charge, right? We do

[00:26:40] our own thing. The problem is we do our own thing. We don't do what we should do.

[00:26:45] We do what we want to do. And a peer group can help hold us accountable to do the things that

[00:26:50] we really should be doing. And that really helped propel us to the next level.

[00:26:57] Yeah, that's awesome. Now I remember the first time I had accountability it changed it because

[00:27:03] your spouse or your teammate, none of them are going to tell you what to do or how to do.

[00:27:10] But you know, you can't fire your peer and they can tell you what to think very directly.

[00:27:15] And sometimes that very candid direct advice is exactly what I needed to hear.

[00:27:20] Well, and we use the survivor model with the Evolve. So groups can vote people off the island if they

[00:27:27] don't execute. And so if you set goals every quarter and come back and say I didn't do them,

[00:27:34] you won't be doing that for very long. The group will ask you to leave because they want to

[00:27:38] be surrounded by people that are really bought in and are being accountable and making things

[00:27:44] happen. That's how we learn from each other. So I love that. I love that. So tell me about you said

[00:27:52] that you grew in one day you went to I think Redmond it was small and you went from how many

[00:27:58] to how many? Yes, so between 2000 and 2006 we grew to three peer groups. I only had one group

[00:28:08] for the first five years and then we added a couple more in 2006. 2007 I went out to SMB Nation out

[00:28:15] in Redmond, Washington, you know, in the Microsoft area and was asked to speak about peer groups.

[00:28:22] And I did and came home with 60 some people that had wanted to join the group. And so all of a

[00:28:31] sudden we went from three groups to nine groups. Only I was facilitating the first three groups and

[00:28:38] it worked out beautifully because I could do, you know, we met four times a year. So I had a

[00:28:44] peer group meeting every month. And with the three groups we rotated through and worked out

[00:28:50] great. When I got to the next six groups that was a problem. So what my genius idea was,

[00:28:59] I was at that time we had done some of the acquisitions and so I had some, some, you know,

[00:29:04] great leaders on my leadership team. And I said, Hey, I'm going to ask each of you to

[00:29:09] facilitate a peer group or two. And, you know, what in my mind I hadn't calculated was they

[00:29:16] have full-time day jobs help and run our company which was growing fast. And now I was

[00:29:21] asking them to take a few days every month to go and facilitate peer groups. And that worked

[00:29:28] for a couple of years. Actually, in 2008 we went from the nine groups up to 18 groups. So the

[00:29:37] growth just continued to explode. And my team finally came to me and said, Hey, we have

[00:29:46] real day jobs and we can't do both of these things. So we got it, we got to pick. We're either

[00:29:51] going to facilitate peer groups or we're going to run this company. And so we made a choice that

[00:29:57] run the company because that was where our bread and butter was. And we made a transition at that

[00:30:04] point to asking members in each group to facilitate. So we would pick the member out

[00:30:09] of each group and ask them to facilitate. And that guy just got us by in the short term.

[00:30:15] But, you know, we lost control of a lot of things when we did that because they weren't

[00:30:21] really working. They didn't work directly for me anymore. They were facilitating a group for us.

[00:30:27] And so we went back to our own facilitation strategy a couple years later. But,

[00:30:33] you know, as much as I preach about planning, I did not have a great plan for HDG. It just kind

[00:30:41] of happened. And, you know, a lot of the best things that I've experienced just happened. Not

[00:30:47] so much that I was a genius and figured it out. It's just good things happen when you just

[00:30:53] listen to talk to people and try to serve their needs.

[00:30:57] Yeah, that last part. Listening and trying to serve that really resonates.

[00:31:05] So I'm curious because I've been in a lot of peer groups and I've seen good and bad people selected,

[00:31:12] meaning not bad people, but the wrong people selected to facilitate.

[00:31:18] So what did you do after that? Because clearly, you know, you didn't just do away with the

[00:31:23] peer groups. You know, and let me back up and ask a better question. You have the growing business.

[00:31:31] You already have your peer groups. Maybe you're still in three. Why not just

[00:31:37] say, hey, I'm going to focus on my business? Walk away from this peer group thing.

[00:31:40] Yeah. Well, what I did was I sold the IT company back in 2012. I made it. I had to make

[00:31:48] a choice. You were right because both were more than full time and I couldn't do justice to both

[00:31:56] and my heart was really with the peer groups. I get joy from serving people, helping them be

[00:32:04] successful. And while we did some of that through the IT company, the peer groups were at a much

[00:32:10] more intimate level and we were able to really go deep with folks. So we sold the company,

[00:32:17] the IT company back in 2012 and kept the peer group organization and really began to focus on that

[00:32:28] because that was where my heart was. And it was the more important choice for me to make.

[00:32:34] I love technology, but I was well past turning wrenches and tweaking software.

[00:32:42] And it was just a job basically at that point. So I let that go and we sold that to a telephone

[00:32:50] company here in Iowa and it's still going today. But the peer groups gave us an opportunity

[00:32:57] to get deep with people and really, really help focus on legacy. I find so many people haven't

[00:33:05] really taken the time to think about their legacy and to really plan for it. And a lot of

[00:33:12] people have the idea that legacy is what happens when you die. There's a piece of it that that's

[00:33:18] true, the legal stuff and those kind of things, but legacy is built while we live. And what we

[00:33:26] do every day matters in the grand scheme of our legacy. And so the ability to in peer groups

[00:33:34] get deep enough with people to help them really think about that and make choices that will impact

[00:33:40] that ongoing future is really what I'm passionate about. And that's what we really look for in

[00:33:47] facilitators. We have over 50 facilitators today in our program. And my team is very,

[00:33:54] very picky about who we allow to facilitate. We do a lot of training around it. And we

[00:34:02] provide a very structured framework and ask them to facilitate based on that framework

[00:34:09] and the training that we give them. And so it's very highly monitored because we want to deliver

[00:34:16] a consistent experience across all the different groups that we have and make sure that people

[00:34:21] are learning and creating their legacy plan and their life leadership and business annual

[00:34:28] plans because that really is the foundation that helps us stay the course and make sure that

[00:34:33] we're going to get people to where we want to get them. I love that. That's quite a difference

[00:34:40] between a few folks working for you and maybe 50 facilitators. That's night and day difference,

[00:34:46] right? I'm curious are, is their focus 100% facilitation? Are they in a coaching

[00:34:55] capacity where they needed to understand the business or be great facilitators or something?

[00:35:00] The majority of them are contractors. And most of them are actually alumni of the peer groups.

[00:35:08] So I would say we've got a handful of facilitators that are connect-wise employees

[00:35:16] that came over when the acquisition happened with HDG. But a lot of the facilitators we have today

[00:35:25] are folks that were in the program, have had an exit. And the number one thing they say is,

[00:35:32] well, we want to give back. We want to help the next generation of people that are in

[00:35:36] the peer groups to have success like we experienced. And so they know our program.

[00:35:44] They know all about the benchmarking and all those things because they were part of it for many of them

[00:35:50] over a decade. And so it's ingrained in them. And they've got that heart of wanting to give back

[00:35:56] and really help the next generation not make the mistakes they made number one,

[00:36:02] but have success like they've experienced themselves. So Connie Arson leads that team

[00:36:09] of facilitators. And she does a masterful job of, we have monthly training calls.

[00:36:16] We have an annual training event where we bring everybody together for a few days and

[00:36:22] work on skill set. I mean, we work really hard to help our facilitators be successful.

[00:36:28] And our members understand that the facilitator is there not to give them the answers. So we

[00:36:34] don't expect them to be the consultant. We expect them to guide the conversation.

[00:36:39] And what we find is that most of the time, the answer's in the room. We just have to get the

[00:36:44] right person to really bring out what they have learned and experienced and share it with the

[00:36:50] group. And people are, we're all different. We've got members that want to talk about every

[00:36:58] topic. And then we have members that are very laid back and shy and don't necessarily want to

[00:37:03] say anything. And that's where the facilitator steps in and says, Hey, Joe, I know you've experienced

[00:37:09] this in your business. Can you share with the group what you did to fix this problem or whatever?

[00:37:16] There's almost always somebody in the room that's got an answer. And if they don't, we've got a set

[00:37:21] of subject matter experts that are available to groups to ask to come in and share specifics

[00:37:28] about particular topics or whatever. Interesting. Interesting. So I want to step back for a second.

[00:37:36] You made the decision to sell your IT business to focus on peer groups.

[00:37:45] Was that a decision that an opportunity appeared? And did you, or is it something you were like

[00:37:50] very strategic about and say, I'm going to prepare for that? Was that a tough decision for you?

[00:37:56] It really wasn't a tough decision for me, Damian. I was tired. I had been running the company 27 years

[00:38:04] and it was a good ride. It was a great ride actually. But I was worn out. When I did my

[00:38:15] first acquisition back in 2002, my new partners and I said, Hey, we're going to run this for

[00:38:22] 10 years. And we didn't really have a plan to do that, but that was just what we kind of threw out

[00:38:28] there. And it was actually in October of 2012 that I got a call from a broker out of the blue saying,

[00:38:38] Hey, there's somebody that's interested in buying your company. Would you be willing to sit down

[00:38:42] and talk about it? And to be honest, we hadn't really had that in mind at all. But my partners

[00:38:51] were also, they were ready to slow down. Things had grown way beyond what we had expected and it

[00:39:00] was a lot of work and we were all kind of tired. So I didn't really expect it to go anywhere,

[00:39:09] but we went down the path and a few months later, we had a deal in place and had the

[00:39:15] opportunity and decided to make the jump. And I haven't looked back and regretted it at all.

[00:39:23] Now, the good news was I had somewhere else to go and put my energy in my focus that I really

[00:39:28] loved more than the IT company. But you know, good things happen. God brought an opportunity

[00:39:37] and it fit exactly what I had wanted to do, which is put my energy behind the peer groups

[00:39:45] and get them to the next level. Yeah, that's awesome. So what we're kind of,

[00:39:56] you know, you've built this amazing community of all these people pouring into each other.

[00:40:01] And what I love is you were the, you'd built it for yourself. You were the guinea pig. So

[00:40:04] you didn't start as an outside facilitator that didn't understand the world and just tried to

[00:40:10] be a facilitator. You were in there and what I love is, you know, you didn't order this way,

[00:40:16] but what I love is when you scaled it, you ran out of months. You clearly couldn't be the facilitator

[00:40:21] when there was more than three or four of those groups. So

[00:40:29] what were some of your biggest lessons, biggest takeaways that you got from

[00:40:34] being in the room with these other business owners, business leaders?

[00:40:40] We all struggle in different ways, but we all have areas that we're much better at and some

[00:40:47] that we aren't. And you know, what a lot of us do is we surround ourselves with people that think

[00:40:53] like us and act like us and are skilled in the same areas because that's what we're comfortable

[00:41:01] with and what we know. And that's not what we really need. We need to be surrounded by people

[00:41:07] that will challenge us and have got skills in areas that we don't. And so that was, you know,

[00:41:14] that was the driver of my first acquisition actually. I was pretty good at managing a company

[00:41:22] in areas other than sales and finance. Creative financial accounting was one of my specialties

[00:41:33] until I got my partner who said, you can't touch the books anymore. We don't necessarily want to

[00:41:40] do it that way. You know, and she was a great, great partner because she kept us focused on

[00:41:48] running the business according to the benchmarking and the financials and using that to manage with.

[00:41:55] So that was when I got my first budget and began to have to manage to a budget. You know,

[00:42:02] those disciplines were really important. The other thing that came in that first acquisition was

[00:42:07] the sales manager. We were not a sales organization. We were technically led and we had grown

[00:42:15] through that model and but we couldn't, we hit a ceiling and we couldn't grow any further. And so

[00:42:22] when we brought that into our organization and began to develop a sales team, that's when

[00:42:28] we started to take off and go to the next level. So bringing people around you that have got skills

[00:42:34] that are complimentary, that maybe you're not necessarily what you enjoy, but you need in

[00:42:40] your organization is certainly something I see across peers today all the time. The people that

[00:42:46] got you where you are are not necessarily going to be the ones that can take you where you want to go.

[00:42:51] And while that's a hard thing to really work through, it's a reality that we all have to face.

[00:42:56] And so, you know, that's the kind of thing that a peer group can call out and say, hey,

[00:43:02] you know, you've been stuck on this sales thing for the last five years and you're not

[00:43:06] really getting anywhere. You need to bring somebody else into the mix that can really help

[00:43:10] drive you in a different way and hand that off so that things get done.

[00:43:17] I love that. I love that. So get out of your comfort zone. Sounds like one of the takeaways.

[00:43:24] Get the right people. If I was to look back across my career and say, this is the one

[00:43:32] thing that I did right, it is surround myself with the right people. I am not the smartest knife in

[00:43:39] the drawer and never have been and never will be. But I've had the fortune of identifying

[00:43:47] folks that can come alongside and become part of the team that helped move us forward.

[00:43:54] I've had amazing people on my team. You know, hiring people to come to work for a company

[00:43:59] in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa was not always the easiest thing. But you know, when they

[00:44:05] saw the vision and the mission and the passion that we had, you know, they were on board and

[00:44:11] they got excited about it. And it's the people that I surrounded myself with that have made

[00:44:19] things successful. It's not been me because I'm not that smart. But

[00:44:26] you know, I did have the ability to draw people into the organization that could help propel us

[00:44:31] forward. And we've had amazing people on our team over the years. Yeah, I couldn't agree more

[00:44:37] that the people will make it. So it's not, but that's also one of those. It's not good,

[00:44:43] not easy for everyone. How helped me understand that more. How do you draw those right people in?

[00:44:50] I know in a lot of cases, a lot of people, I'll give an example. A lot of tech people

[00:44:56] all sound good. You know, they all have lots of experience or certifications or what have you,

[00:45:03] but they're in my experience not all equal. So how have you learned to draw the right people

[00:45:10] in, Arlen? Well, you know, to me it starts with having clarity around what's your mission

[00:45:16] vision and core values, right? What are the things that you're pursuing and how are you going to do it?

[00:45:22] Because that has to be a gate that people have to be able to pass to really become part of the team.

[00:45:30] You know, having good job descriptions and clarity around those kind of things, expectations,

[00:45:38] laying that out front is important. You know, I find that I learn a lot by having, I like

[00:45:44] to go to dinner with not only the prospect but with their spouse and especially their families,

[00:45:50] if possible. I can learn a lot from kids if I can get a few minutes with them, find out about mom or

[00:45:57] dad. And you know, so I would always try to take people out for dinner and have a conversation

[00:46:04] with the spouse or family. One of the tricks we used all the time when, especially when we

[00:46:10] were interviewing techs, is while we were in the interview process I had one of my teammates go out

[00:46:16] and look in their car and just see how they kept their car. You know, if the backseat was full of

[00:46:22] McDonald's wrappers and empty pop cans, it gave me a good indication of what they would be like

[00:46:27] in terms of, you know, an employee taking care of our stuff. So we tried to find little

[00:46:36] ways we could get some indication at a macro level of who they were. But really it's about the

[00:46:44] conversation, it's about understanding, you know, what matters to them, what things are important,

[00:46:50] what are they involved in, you know, and what their passions are so that we could see if

[00:46:57] there was going to be alignment there. And we were looking for people that wanted to serve

[00:47:03] our customers and serve them well. You know, that was really kind of the thing that we still look

[00:47:10] for today with the peer groups is, you know, if it's about you, you're not the higher we want.

[00:47:16] If it's about you helping people get to where they want to go, that's what we're looking for.

[00:47:21] And people that have that passion and are willing to, you know, go the extra mile to

[00:47:28] help people get there is really what our facilitators are all about today.

[00:47:33] We ask you to write a plan, you're not necessarily going to accomplish that on your own. In fact,

[00:47:38] very unlikely that anybody accomplishes a plan on their own. They need a village around them.

[00:47:44] They need a facilitator or cheerleader to help rally the troops. And over the years, that's

[00:47:50] been one of the things that, you know, HTG and Evolve have done is if we have a member

[00:47:56] that goes through a tough time, a crisis or a challenge, a ransomware attack or whatever,

[00:48:04] you know, the groups just, they collapse and help each other. People are on airplanes and

[00:48:09] they're going there to help one another. Make sure that nobody, you know, fails and can't get

[00:48:16] through it. So that's the kind of culture that we're really building and trying to build.

[00:48:23] It's what creates the extreme loyalty we have. People know they're not alone.

[00:48:28] If they need help, all they have to do is raise their hand and their facilitator will take that

[00:48:34] and it will immediately see response from all over the globe to help people get through those

[00:48:41] times. Yeah, you just have to be willing to ask. You need help. Right. You know,

[00:48:48] there's five principles in the Go-Giver book. The fifth one is you have to be willing to receive.

[00:48:56] And the reality is, you know, people look at saying, oh, I don't need any help. You know,

[00:49:03] it's kind of a form of, you know, pride almost. I'm self-sufficient. I don't need any help.

[00:49:11] And that's a bunch of baloney. You know, the truth is if we're not willing to receive,

[00:49:17] we prevent somebody else from being able to give. And that's a key concept that we really try to

[00:49:24] drive home in the peer groups is it's not that you're weak or that you can't do it on your own,

[00:49:30] it's that you rob somebody else of the joy and the opportunity to help you.

[00:49:36] And they can't give if you won't receive. And so, you know, we try to drive home that

[00:49:41] message that, you know, part of really a very functional relationship in peer group is

[00:49:47] the willingness to let others help. Well said. Well said. Do you get into that

[00:49:55] mindset of if you have an issue of pride or I feel like sometimes with me it was insecurity

[00:50:04] more than pride of I, I mean this group and they all feel like they, you know,

[00:50:08] if I come into a new group or something and there's 10 or 12, man, these guys, you know,

[00:50:14] on that outside look, yeah, they feel like they've got it together. Maybe I'm smaller in revenue

[00:50:19] or newer in the business, you know, there can be insecurity where I go, I don't know if I raise

[00:50:23] my hand, I'm going to open my mouth and let everybody know I don't know what I'm doing. So

[00:50:28] so do you help with mindset, especially if there's some insecurity or something else

[00:50:32] where they're just not willing to raise their hand and ask for help? Yeah, I mean,

[00:50:37] that's another role we ask our facilitators to play is to notice those things and connect dots

[00:50:44] for people within the room. I mean, one of the things we've learned over the years is we now

[00:50:49] run a program called Jumpstart which when you sign up to become a member of the peer group,

[00:50:54] you go to this two day immersion experience before you ever go to the actual group meeting that

[00:51:00] you're going to be a part of to just learn the framework to understand that the benchmarking

[00:51:07] tools, all of our planning process, but also how to say interaction happened in the room, right?

[00:51:13] And and you know, we go through exercises and simulations to help people understand that

[00:51:21] it's not a sign of weakness or anything else. If if you need help, the mistake is we don't

[00:51:28] ask for it and our facilitators are going to be probing to figure those things out. But you know,

[00:51:34] it's a lot easier if you just raise your hand and say, Hey, I'm struggling with with this particular

[00:51:39] thing. Every every meeting that that that we start, we go around and ask each individual why

[00:51:46] they're there. What do they want to learn this quarter while we're together? And we

[00:51:50] capture that and as a facilitator, we facilitate against that list throughout the two days.

[00:51:57] Because everybody's got something that they need to figure out, you know,

[00:52:01] that they can learn from the room. So we do we do things to try to draw that out and

[00:52:07] make it obvious to the room. And, you know, that allows people on breaks to go have one

[00:52:12] on ones with somebody or whatever and speak into it. But we'll tackle it in the room as well.

[00:52:20] Okay, that makes a sense. Always better to ask. You can't be mind readers.

[00:52:27] For sure. Tell me about how your roles evolved from leaving the peer groups, you know, so which

[00:52:34] is not quite wrench turning, but the I guess it's kind of the wrench turning of of of the peer

[00:52:39] groups to where where it is today and what your what your what your challenges are and

[00:52:45] what your opportunities are and what what I'm just curious what what does your role

[00:52:49] look like? And how is that different? Yeah, so, you know, when we got acquired by

[00:52:53] Connectwise in 2018, I became part of the strategy team. And just recently now have moved to the

[00:53:00] IT nation team. But my focus is working with partners, right? I still facilitate multiple

[00:53:07] groups and and state stay connected through that. But I work with partners every day,

[00:53:15] just rolled out a brand new program we call it nation grow, which is focused on business

[00:53:20] transition. So it's it's a quarterly event that we're holding our next one comes up the

[00:53:28] first week in June in Orlando. But but I'm putting together a set of speakers that talk about

[00:53:37] different facets of business transition. This particular meeting, we're going to talk about

[00:53:42] what's the impact of security on business transactions today? How do you make sure

[00:53:47] you don't buy somebody and inherit a real security problem? You know, should you create an MSSP to

[00:53:55] increase the value of your company, you know, things like that. So, so I still see way too

[00:54:02] many partners that are not ready for transition, they haven't prepared their company. All they do

[00:54:08] is work really hard, which is important. But it's not how you get a business-ready

[00:54:12] transition. So that's a focal area that I'm focused on. You know, I'm part of the strategic planning

[00:54:20] team at Connectwise. So we're we're figuring out what the next the rest of the IT nation

[00:54:26] roadmap looks like for the next few years. And so a lot of work there with Connectwise

[00:54:32] on partners. We have our own consulting team Oak Road Consulting here on the farm that that

[00:54:37] I do some work with. And I just started a new set of peer groups not too long ago that we call S2S,

[00:54:44] Success to Significance. And those are designed for people that have

[00:54:50] transacted their way out of their company. So people that have had exits that are now trying

[00:54:56] to figure out what do I do? And it's been so interesting to see we've got 20 companies or

[00:55:04] 20 guys in this group. It's a couple's thing. So that was lesson number one. Business owners don't

[00:55:11] talk to their wives about anything that matters. So they get they get through this exit process

[00:55:18] and their spouse has no idea what happened and what it means. So but we bring them together

[00:55:24] for two days just like our other groups. And we talk about the next chapter in life.

[00:55:29] Where do you find your purpose and identity? Because those were so tied to your company that

[00:55:35] they're gone now. And what are you going to do when you get up tomorrow? I mean,

[00:55:39] you don't have a day job anymore. So people are lost. They really struggle. And so it's been

[00:55:45] really, really good to have those groups together and learn together how to redefine

[00:55:51] the future and you know, focus on legacy again and make sure that we're doing things

[00:55:57] every day that move us toward that legacy. So I got plenty going on, not not not short of things to do,

[00:56:04] but it's all about people and you know, peer groups is the is the tool that I find to be the

[00:56:10] most effective way to help people get to where they want to go. What's your highest

[00:56:17] and best use, Arlen? Well, my personal mission is to influence people that are influencers in

[00:56:25] the channel. So my highest and best use is to spend time with with the folks that are actually

[00:56:33] leading the way. And I coach and I mentor and do a lot of behind the scenes things with

[00:56:40] leaders and try to build into them things that they can take and build into those around them.

[00:56:47] So I'm not trying to be on the front end of leading anymore. I want to be behind the

[00:56:53] scenes and whispering in people's ears and encouraging them. And you know, when they're

[00:56:58] beating their head against the wall, tell them I understand I've got a lot of bruises in my head

[00:57:03] from beating my head against the wall to we're dealing with people all day every day. It's

[00:57:08] it's a challenge, but it's also where the good stuff happens. And so that's my highest and best

[00:57:15] use is just to be an encourager and help people lead better. I love that. I love that.

[00:57:25] When did you realize that that and then if you disagree, let me know, but it seems like

[00:57:34] get connecting, creating community, creating close relationships, bringing people together

[00:57:40] seems to be your highest and best use, your talent. When did that click for you? When did you go,

[00:57:48] huh, maybe this is what I should, what I'm good at when better than others at what I should be doing

[00:57:54] maybe God called you do whatever you want to frame that. I mean, you know, I've known for a long

[00:57:59] time leading my companies that one of my superhero strengths is the ability to bring

[00:58:06] people together. Right? And so, you know, the success I've enjoyed over my career is not because

[00:58:12] of me. It's because of the people that I assembled. And so, you know, some of those folks have been

[00:58:18] with me for over 30 years, right? So that's a key thing is that you get the right people

[00:58:27] on the same mission. They're not going anywhere. They're bought in. They're probably

[00:58:31] bought in more than I am in some cases. And, you know, so, so I've known for a long time that

[00:58:38] whether I was selling technology or peer groups or anything, it's all about relationships. I mean,

[00:58:45] we sell technology, but it's about relationships. That's what that's what makes everything work.

[00:58:52] And so that's been my message forever is that the investment we make in people is what's going

[00:58:59] to have a real return to it. And so, you know, I've always been a big believer in that.

[00:59:05] And as I got into the peer groups, that became no more evident because, you know, we got closer

[00:59:10] and closer and deeper and deeper with folks. And we got to see firsthand the impact of

[00:59:16] relationships and people's lives. And, you know, the stories that that we hear from

[00:59:23] from folks in their gratitude for the peer groups, it's not usually about the business success they

[00:59:30] had. It's usually about, you know, things that happened with their marriage or with their kids or

[00:59:36] or with people in their organization. It's the relational things that really matter to folks.

[00:59:44] And that's so true with these S2S groups, you know, a lot of these folks who had exits

[00:59:51] that were far beyond what they ever dreamed were even possible. Right? I mean, things have been

[00:59:56] really good in the last five years in terms of exits. But that's not what they talk about,

[01:00:03] not how much money they got in their bank account. It's, hey, this is this is what's happened in

[01:00:08] our family life. This is what's happened in my marriage. This is what's happened with our

[01:00:13] friends or former employees. You know, those are the things people care about is,

[01:00:19] is, you know, the relational stuff. And so it is all about relationships. And God showed me that

[01:00:26] early on and made that that's been a priority in my life and what I've tried to do for decades.

[01:00:34] And sharing that is, you know, the message that I try to put out there all day, every day community

[01:00:39] is the most powerful tool we have. And the more we invest in the community, the more we're

[01:00:44] going to receive from it. I love that. So as a believer, how do you integrate God into your

[01:00:54] community or companies, your culture? Obviously, I love your, you know, share it earlier. I love

[01:01:02] your newsletter where you share some really interesting takes on scripture. I'm curious

[01:01:07] because I know I'm not sure I've ever got it figured out, right? I would love to hear

[01:01:12] your thoughts on that. Well, I learned the hard way that, you know, if you check your faith at the door,

[01:01:20] someday you forget to pick it back up again and you get into the weeds and go dark pretty fast.

[01:01:27] And that's really what happened in my life, Damien. I bought in the 90s. I bought into this whole

[01:01:33] idea that, hey, if you're going to grow a company, you got to push faith to the side.

[01:01:38] You can't let your faith be known in the marketplace. I mean, people, they're just not going to let that

[01:01:45] happen. And so my approach was that when I went to work in the morning, I'd check my faith and

[01:01:53] hang it on the hook and walk through the door. And at night, I would pick it back up when I

[01:01:59] went home and take it with me. Only after a while, I forgot to pick it back up. And, you

[01:02:04] know, pretty soon I was out there running on my own without really the foundation of my Christian

[01:02:14] beliefs and foundation. And, you know, I made some really poor decisions financially and other ways to

[01:02:24] really get to a point where I had to have a real, you know, literally come to Jesus meeting with

[01:02:31] myself about, hey, am I a believer or not? Because I sure not acting like it right now.

[01:02:38] And God whacked me upside the head with a two by four and said, you know, what are you doing?

[01:02:43] And, you know, I made a decision that I can't live two different lives. That's just not possible.

[01:02:52] So since that time in 2000, you know, my decision has been to just be transparent

[01:03:00] and to live my life transparently. And, you know, I'm not afraid to let people know that I'm a

[01:03:05] Christ follower and that's what I do every day. That's one of the reasons I started to write my

[01:03:11] daily emails and post my studies on Scripture. You know, for decades it was like, well,

[01:03:17] I can't let anybody know that I read the Bible for crying out loud. Well, I want people to

[01:03:22] know I read the Bible because that's where the wisdom is. You know, the thing about

[01:03:26] Godly principles, they always work. Always. Even if you don't believe them, they still work.

[01:03:32] You know, and so, you know, I made that decision and I transparently live that today and

[01:03:40] some people push back on that. But, you know, the reality is that nobody can challenge our

[01:03:47] personal testimony and what Christ has done in our life. You know, they can argue with what

[01:03:53] Scripture means and all these other things. But they can't argue about what God's done in us.

[01:04:00] And that's really what I try to do is just be transparent about what God's doing in my life.

[01:04:05] He's still working on me. He's got plenty to fix yet. I learn every day, but I'm not ashamed

[01:04:11] to let people know that and let people understand, you know, how God's at work.

[01:04:17] I love that. Thank you for opening up. I just, I only grinned or laughed because you're like, you know,

[01:04:23] they've got a lot to fix with me and I'm just like, yeah, you're talking about me too, right?

[01:04:28] 100%. Well, it's all of us. And you know, that's the beauty in the peer groups too.

[01:04:33] Right. The walls come down. People are willing to let people know that they're not perfect

[01:04:38] because we all know there's nobody perfect, right? So, we're all trying to fix something.

[01:04:44] A lot of us have a lot of things we're trying to fix. And you know, the way we get it fixed is

[01:04:50] we admit we need help and we ask for that help and we seek it. And you know, sometimes it's

[01:04:56] from peers. A lot of times it's just God helped me. You know, you're working on my character,

[01:05:02] you're building into me. But we have to be willing to let that, you know, let that out

[01:05:08] and receive it. Yeah. Yeah. And this day of social media, in this day of,

[01:05:16] you know, these photos, just everything, it just, I think easy to get caught up in the

[01:05:23] I need to look perfect. I need to appear perfect. I need to not let anybody know that I'm

[01:05:28] very flawed and have a lot to fix. So, I love what you just said because I think if

[01:05:34] you can open up, be vulnerable, let the walls come down. You know, you can ask God, you can ask

[01:05:40] peers, you can ask a lot of people for help. And as a business owner, it can be lonely.

[01:05:48] Oh, it's very lonely. It's great. Right? When you're not in a peer group, when you're not connected to

[01:05:53] God, when you're, when you've got to make all these decisions and it feels like you're the,

[01:05:57] sometimes in my experience, the only one. Yeah. Well, you're not the only one,

[01:06:01] that's for sure. You know, none of us are perfect and we all need help. And,

[01:06:06] you know, the thing I think we're seeing in a lot, especially since the pandemic,

[01:06:10] the pressure and the stress of trying to be perfect and live that perfect life is really

[01:06:16] having taken a toll on mental health. You know, in my 40 years in this, in this industry,

[01:06:25] I've never seen the kind of stress and pressure that that owners and even,

[01:06:29] even their teams are under and a lot of it self inflicted, you know, we want to be perfect. We want

[01:06:35] to be, you know, doing all this stuff and we're not, and we never will be because we're human.

[01:06:42] But, you know, the mental health issues that we're seeing across our peer groups even are

[01:06:49] staggering. And, you know, so we've got to be willing to open up and be transparent and be real

[01:06:56] trying to live a life that's behind the veil that appears to be perfect, but we know is not,

[01:07:02] is stressful. I mean, it's putting up a facade is a hard thing to do 24 seven.

[01:07:08] And so we just got to let the walls down and be transparent because nobody, nobody

[01:07:14] thinks we're perfect. Everybody knows we're flawed. There are no, there's only been one

[01:07:19] perfect guy in the world. And, you know, he went to the cross as a result of it. But

[01:07:25] we just need to be transparent and willing to receive help because we all need it.

[01:07:30] All right. I couldn't agree more. So what do you see as the challenges and the future for

[01:07:40] you have a unique insight with all these peer groups on these people? What do you see

[01:07:43] as the challenges and the opportunities for the future of the industry?

[01:07:48] Well, the world's going really fast right now. You know, I think from a challenges perspective,

[01:07:56] AI is going to do a lot of positive things and be a useful tool, but it's also going to be a very

[01:08:03] negative thing, especially in cybersecurity and just protecting businesses and things like that.

[01:08:12] I think, you know, there's going to be a whole new wave of challenges that we've never seen before.

[01:08:20] That'll be a result of AI and RPA. So that whole dynamic is going to put stress on technologists

[01:08:31] for sure. You know, I think we're still kind of in the middle of this business transformation

[01:08:39] to the cloud, digital transformation, all that stuff that we've been working on now for

[01:08:47] almost a decade or maybe even a little longer that needs to get completed because that'll

[01:08:54] be part of the solution to securing information going forward. We're moving into kind of the

[01:09:02] wild west again from my perspective. This reminds me of, you know, kind of the pre-managed services

[01:09:09] days and, you know, there's just a lot of unknowns. And so I think there's huge opportunity that

[01:09:18] comes with that or huge risk that comes with that. And the people that are making the investment

[01:09:25] to learn and try to grow and understand it will be on the forefront. I think customers

[01:09:32] don't have a clue what's coming at them. It's going to change how people work. It's going to

[01:09:39] change what they do. And we're, I think, moving far too slowly to get ready for those kind of things.

[01:09:46] But you know, God's got a plan for all of this and, you know, I cling to that

[01:09:53] knowing that I don't have to figure it out. So that's the good thing.

[01:09:56] Well said. Yeah, well said. Well said. Yeah, a lot of change. Thank you for that. A lot of change,

[01:10:03] right? And I think, I want to tie it back to what we said earlier. There's more mental health issues

[01:10:09] than ever. And then we have more change than ever. So somehow this might be correlated.

[01:10:17] And if the rate of change doesn't appear to be slowing, you know, we're going to have to

[01:10:23] realize as humans, we can't do it. We can't do it all by ourselves. We need each other and we need

[01:10:31] a relationship with God because that's the one thing that never moves. You know,

[01:10:37] there's not many things in the world that you can depend on every day being the same. That is one.

[01:10:43] And we need to rock like that in our lives because the rest of the world is shifting quickly.

[01:10:49] Yes. Yes, well said. Arlen, this was amazing. Thank you for being on MSP Mindset. I could,

[01:10:59] I think, talk to you all afternoon. The calendar permitted this has just been an amazing gift from

[01:11:04] my perspective. So thank you for this. For anybody that's listening, is there any way that

[01:11:12] they should connect with you or find out more about Evolve or STS or just any of the things

[01:11:18] that you're doing? How should they find you or connect with you or just subscribe to your newsletter

[01:11:25] or how should they connect? You know, they can reach out to me. Arlen at ArlenSaranson.com is

[01:11:32] email to use to reach out. If they want to get on my morning email list. Evolve's got a website

[01:11:42] obviously S2Sgroups.com is our website for the peer groups for folks that are exiting.

[01:11:50] But feel free to reach out directly to me and glad to connect and share whatever I can to help

[01:11:57] people get to where they want to go. Thank you for that gift, Arlen. That's amazing.

[01:12:03] We'll make sure to put those links so everybody can get connected.

[01:12:07] This has been an amazing gift. Thank you for being here today. Well, thanks for

[01:12:10] the opportunity. It's always a joy to talk to somebody that's to you know, to share the stories

[01:12:15] and talk to somebody that cares like you do for the audiences that you serve.