Is a Bigger MSP Always Better?? | Guest: Marvin Bee

[00:00:00] I think probably the biggest thing is to find clients that you have a synergy with. A lot of times, MSPs and techs are fighting with their clients about recommendations and support. And a long time ago, I decided, I'm not going to fight. I'm not going to sit across the table and try to convince you why you need to use me.

[00:00:21] Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset. Today I'm joined by Marvin Bee, or Uncle Marv as he's known as Uncle Marv's IT Business Podcast and the solopreneur of MB Systems.

[00:00:42] Today we talked about how you can build a solo MSP business that gives you the time freedom you've always desired and give yourself the permission to be happy where you are and to do it intentionally. If you'd like to learn about how Marv did that, has managed to travel to an amazing number of conferences per year and have multiple podcasts with his time freedom, don't miss out on our conversation today.

[00:01:07] I want to dig into something because you're the only person I think I've met that is staying small by design. So why the heck do you do that? And what does that mean?

[00:01:19] Well, I should probably say that I'm not the only one. There are other people in this industry that are solo for specific reasons. A lot of time it's the area that they're in. They just don't have the ability to scale.

[00:01:41] You know, if they're in a small town or they may have limitations. Some people are doing this as a side gig. Sure. And of course, our industry has a tendency to label the side giggers. Yeah. But that's how I started, to be honest. And my reasoning for staying small actually came about because I tried to grow in the beginning.

[00:02:09] And I had an admin person. I had two techs working for me. And I'm not going to say that it was great. It wasn't bad, but it was frustrating. Yeah.

[00:02:25] And the type of service that I was giving to my clients, once I realized that I could do a lot of it remotely and I could automate some things, I didn't need the techs at that point. Mm-hmm. So I just made a decision that I'm just going to do this as long as it works. And if I grow, I'll grow, but I'm not going to force it to happen.

[00:02:54] And it's funny because I have grown the business in a sense, but I still haven't gotten to the point where I've had to have that additional full-time person work with me. I've been able to do it with subcontractors. So I found that that model works for me and my customers are okay with it because a lot of my clients, they may have a satellite office in another city.

[00:03:23] So it's not like I need that full-time person here. I just need help when I need assistance in that other city. So I just partner up with people in those cities and that's my model and it works. Any advice to other MSP owners that are listening that feel like they're trapped in the headcount race or not sure how to set up? I know there's a lot of fear around, not only contractors, but maybe more specifically, like, I don't know if I can talk to another MSP, what if they steal my client?

[00:03:52] Or what if I just contract or get somebody and then they're horrible? I'm sure you've had to grapple with those issues. Yeah. I would say this. First of all, you cannot live in fear. Well, I was going to say, I think I've done that a good bit, so I think I have, but maybe I shouldn't. Yeah.

[00:04:14] But this is one of those industries where, yeah, it is cutthroat to a degree, but the community over the years has gotten better. Mm-hmm. Where MSPs are realizing that there's enough business out there that we can work together and not step on each other's feet.

[00:04:39] I go back to when I worked with one of my buddies here and we would help each other out with projects because both of us at the time, it was just us. And so that was our way of scaling when we needed to. We'd call our buddies and he'd help me and I'd help him. And I remember one of his clients asked me during a visit because I had to go for something. I don't remember the details, but I was there and not him.

[00:05:09] And they asked me, they were like, can you support us instead of him? And I said, doesn't matter whether I want to or not, you're his client and I'm not going to do that to him. You have to approach him about that. Yeah. And the good thing about that was that the client respected the fact that I did that. I mean, they didn't say it at the time. They said it later. Sure.

[00:05:38] But my friend also respected that, that I wasn't going to do that to him and that we're still friends to this day. But I think in terms of whatever business model you choose, if you choose to stay small in this industry, you have to just ignore the noise of everybody saying you have to do this. I'm sorry.

[00:06:07] Our industry is just like any other where you don't have to do anything that somebody else is doing. Do what works for you and do what the market calls for. We have a lot of customers in this industry that don't want the bigger MSP. And until that changes, somebody needs to service them. So there are plenty of opportunities.

[00:06:33] Now, again, it might depend on your area because here in South Florida, there's a ton of people down here. There's a ton of businesses. So there's a lot of opportunity for both large and small IT solution providers. So it's got to work in terms of the numbers, whether you can do that or not.

[00:06:57] And then, of course, the customer has to be willing to pay to some degree. I do have people that when I approach them and put together my contract for them and stuff, and they look at it and say, you're just as much as the other guys. And I can say confidently that, well, I do what they do. Now, there may be some nuances.

[00:07:24] I'm not offering 24-7 support, but I'm offering much more personalized service. And that's where you've got to have a tradeoff. So it has to work both ways. But I don't think that it has to be just one MSP model or solution provider model, whatever name we come up with that covers all of us.

[00:07:53] So, I mean, the advice is look for the opportunities. They're there. If you want to stay small for whatever reason, you can do that. There are plenty of vendors in this space that will support us as small businesses. So don't think that if you go to a vendor and they have a high minimum, that's fine. Those vendors, that's their choice. Find another vendor that will support a small business. I love that.

[00:08:24] So you've been able to grow through automation. You've been able to grow through, it sounds like the right customer fit. And I know there's probably somebody listening that goes, wait, I've never thought about that. I feel like I have to get to this next rung because everybody, like you said, there's a lot of noise. Everybody's saying grow, grow, grow, right? So why are you intentional about that? Is your goal to, is it from a lifestyle perspective?

[00:08:54] Is it from a I don't want as many people perspective? Is it just being about intentional? Is it something else? I'll be honest. Every time I get asked this question, I always end up coming back to the answer of, I'm happy where I am now. That's a great answer. Not many MSPs can say that, by the way. I think that is. Yeah, that's the point is, you know, what is it? What is your end goal?

[00:09:23] And I'll be honest, I don't have an end goal yet. Now, I do have plans if certain things happen that, you know, there is an exit strategy. My clients have a way of moving on. If something were to happen to me, like they're not going to be left in a lurch if something happens. So from that perspective, yeah, we're taken care of. But for me, I like what I'm doing. I like the way my business runs.

[00:09:53] Do I work more hours than most MSPs or most techs want to? Probably. But I actually have a lot more freedom than some people have as well. And a lot of that is the way that I've designed my business around the way I support my clients and the tools that I've put in place where even when I'm sitting here in this office all day long, it's not that constant ringing of the phone. It's not the constant ticket alerts coming in.

[00:10:24] I'm happy. And to be honest, I'm more worried about being happy than being rich is probably the shortest way to put it. Is there opportunity for money out there? Is there opportunity to grow? Yeah, I've probably missed a couple of shifts where I could have, you know, done big things.

[00:10:46] But at the end of the day, I got to be able to go home and be content with my day, not be frustrated, not be angry, be able to chat with the wife, you know, and enjoy life. Yeah. Is there a certain niche or avatar that fits the best with you from a client perspective?

[00:11:13] so i fell into the legal space okay that is what seems to have been working for a while and when i first started i ended up in the auto repair space where i got in touch with a reseller of pbg paints and the paint shops controlled the body shops because they would actually pay for the equipment

[00:11:38] to go in and so i remember the early years you know i'm running around to 100 body shops oh wow but i'm getting paid by the paint company and then of course around i think it was 2008 all that changed when the paint companies are like we can't be paying for computers for these shops anymore yeah and so that changed but i had already had one or two attorney clients and i had a consultant friend

[00:12:07] that had some more opportunities and i i took that so that's my main avatar they're probably about 65 now percent of my business and then you know i had a medical client uh i've got some excuse me architectural firms but the bulk avatar would be the legal space it's really really

[00:12:32] interesting so how the heck do you deal with medical and architecture and sounds like primarily legal and the thing is i've talked to you multiple times and you just seem like the phone isn't ringing off the hook you seem calm cool collected um so so what did you crack where's the code you crack that especially most msps don't irregardless of size and uh with your clients

[00:13:02] um i don't know that i've cracked a code but i've i've found some synergy with the clients i have i think probably the biggest thing is to find clients that you have a synergy with meaning a lot of times msps and techs are fighting with their clients about you know recommendations and support

[00:13:27] and i just a long time ago decided i'm not going to fight with anybody i'm not going to sit across the table and try to convince you why you need to use me if we can't you know do that in a civil manner if we can't do that you know in a simple way that both you understand and i understand how we need to

[00:13:53] work together i understand your business you understand you know what you need in tech support from me that was the big thing so i started to eliminate a lot of those types of situations where i was constantly fighting with the customers so now i mean it's i mean i'm not going to say i don't have the phone ringing you know from that i mean they're those days still exist um but it's odd

[00:14:22] because we took a phone call this morning and you know they they call and they tell kim when i'm so sorry to bother you that's funny and i'm like no no you're supposed to call us and but finding that synergy where they understand that i'm not out just to make money i'm not out to always sell them the

[00:14:49] latest gadget i'm here to help them run their business better and i can only do that by being a true partner with them understanding what it is what is it that you need the computers to do what is it you need your network to do what do your employees need to do to be more productive how can i help with that and we'll get to the price you know act after you know we figure this out and that's just

[00:15:18] worked and it's it's it's something where i was trying to jot down some ideas you know i think having the client loyalty has been a byproduct of that to where once i establish that rapport with them

[00:15:44] and get them to the point of whatever decision they need to make we're not doing it without talking to mars and i like that yeah that's how it should be it's not always how is it how it is yeah so how do you set those boundaries i think there's a lot of us that struggle and um and then do you

[00:16:12] charge every time they call or is it part of the managed service contract uh you know because most of us that sell this flat rate you know per seat you know they can call as much as they want so sometimes you have the people that do yeah so i have a very hybrid model when it comes to everything uh including my pricing so one of the things that we don't do is charge for everything

[00:16:38] uh we have a mixed pricing model so it's a it's a combination of you know per server per computer per user uh and i've got an algorithm you know for each client on that but the biggest thing is not to feel not to make them feel like they're being billed for everything so

[00:17:01] you know i did have a client for a long time who you know the contract is written as remote support agreement and the concept was you know if we can do it by phone or by remote no charge but if we have to come on site there's a charge and they were so adamant to have their users don't call them

[00:17:28] don't make them come on site it's gonna cost us more that's funny so i had to blend my my service to where i told them look there's some on site built in i don't want you to worry about having to be billed every time i walk out the door uh are there things that are gonna have to be billed for yeah if it's you know significant if i'm there all day if it's an installation you know there's gonna be some costs but i don't want you to worry and it and it made sense because i was talking to attorneys

[00:17:59] who that's how they're they're built on the fact that everything they do is billable and i just said look if you call me you're not going to see that on the invoice if it's just a few minutes if it's you know now if i'm on with an hour for you yeah that'll be on there but most of the time it's going to be covered by the plan um sometimes it might not be but you'll know so having that fear taken away

[00:18:28] of you know not being nickel and dimed um has has helped so it it's not the same plan for everybody so i i know that that's probably difficult for some people to do um because they want to have you know the three plans you choose from one of these three plans i don't do that my my deal is

[00:18:55] customized for each client now the the components are the same right but every client has a mixed bundle and you know i am trying to make it easier so that when they understand you know here's what you're being billed for they can see line by line okay yep we've got this many users yep we've got this many computers yep this was a new you know a new server we had to install so there's that price

[00:19:21] but they don't see on my invoice that you know a user called me 20 times and there's 20 charges on there in fact i have i had a customer that was like you don't put enough information on your invoice we at least want to see you know what's been done and uh then i've had people that are like yeah we don't want to see all that we just we just want to know that we're paying you and stuff gets taken

[00:19:48] care of yeah yeah that makes sense so for folks that are either struggling with growing struggling with dealing with all the noise that they're not enough unless they grow or hit some head count of revenue or some other milestone um or they're just you know maybe they're struggling to move from the side gig to full-time or maybe they maybe they've bounced off the i've hired a few folks and i don't

[00:20:17] like it like what advice would you have to folks to understand they they can choose a different route they don't have to hit a certain revenue or head count milestone to to be a real business i think the first thing is understanding what a real business is from a legal standpoint i mean

[00:20:42] if you're registered with your you know local municipality and you've got a legal business address and you're you know signed up with the state to collect your sales tax if that's what you need to do um then you're a business and that is enough to some degree the next step is to obviously make sure you

[00:21:05] can make a living at it and then the third step is to be happy i mean that's that's kind of my my stepping stones there so when you're looking at what your business should be uh-huh should should's the operative word there yeah um should it should match what you need it to be and what you want it to be

[00:21:35] and that that's really the only two points so what you need it to be obviously is can you make enough money to live if that's going to be your primary source of income if it's if it's a side gig that's a whole different set of parameters uh and that's a whole nother discussion that kind of doesn't play here so i'm going to talk from the standpoint if if if you're doing this full-time or you want to do

[00:22:02] this full-time you just need to figure out what is it requiring of your business so that you can support yourself your family your lifestyle whatever that is and price everything accordingly which is probably the biggest thing that a lot of people have is how do you price stuff right um you know there are people that are like you know we talked about it earlier the pricing per user or per

[00:22:32] device and i know that you know our industry has a tendency to push one or the other uh there are people that have found success in the flat rate where they just figure out here's the number for everything and that way the customer is happy and that works for them but you got to find out what works for you and you know i had to find a model that worked for me which was kind of a hybrid of all

[00:22:59] of that but the baseline to figuring that out is finding out that magic number what is the number you have to make per now i actually did it the other way i was like well how much do i need per year and then back that out per month and then back that out per device or per user or per client i mean you've got to

[00:23:24] figure something out that that that degree you know what is it that you need to make and then work backwards from there as to how you do your pricing and make sure you built in you know your profit margin as well so that's what i've done and i've gone to a couple of sites to figure out you know what is the median you know salary for technicians in my area for businesses in my area and that's kind of how

[00:23:52] i gauge stuff so you know in terms of the rat race you know all these kpis and metrics and all of that stuff the bigger you get the more you need those but in the early years or as a smaller msp not so much i love that just find the number that works and make the numbers work for you

[00:24:23] i love that i think there's somebody listening that needed to hear that how did you find time to start on top of all these things a podcast and why and it's just uh not the typical msp well there's a lot more people doing podcasts now than when i started but the short answer

[00:24:49] to the question is you just find the time as with anything important in life if if you wanted to happen you make the time so that's what i did uh going in more detail about why so around 2013 14 when i i had just well maybe not just a couple years before i had finally gotten rid of

[00:25:16] my last tech and so i was doing all my stuff you know building my processes and my automations and looking for tools uh i had not yet run across the rmmpsa set of stuff and i came across the podcast community where i don't know how i came across it but it was just something i did and as i'm listening

[00:25:45] i'm like hey those guys are just like me and so i started listening more got involved and around the time that i really committed to being you know a listener the shows went away and i was like wait a minute what and the owner of the network at the time it was actually a network of podcasts had reached

[00:26:10] out to say that hey we're looking for people to come take these over anybody wanting to do that and i actually waited too long because when i finally said yeah i'll reach out somebody had already taken the spot but they partnered me up with that person to help them if when they needed it to be a frequent guest on the show and so i did that for a while i was just kind of a helper in that sense and then

[00:26:39] the opportunity came to bring back another show that was focused on businesses because the show i was on was focused on the solo tech the small business uh the residential but there was a podcast that was focused on transitioning to business support and the talent part of that podcast because it was a host

[00:27:02] and uh and well it was two hosts but one person was just kind of there to you know manage the podcast ask the questions and then there was somebody there that was actually you know giving out the the tech tips and the information well the talent person wanted to still do that but needed somebody to run the logistical stuff and i said well i can do that so that was what i committed to actually doing it

[00:27:29] and at that point i was still very active like playing basketball and doing all that stuff but i was at the point where i knew i wasn't one of i wasn't going to be one of those guys that played ball till i was 70 and couldn't play anymore so i knew there would be a point in time where i'm like i wanted to get out while i was still healthy um i didn't want to be you know waking up with bum knees and a bad back and stuff so when that

[00:27:58] opportunity came up i said you know what i'm going to transition from basketball to podcasting uh so that's when i when i did that and then the opportunity came for me to take over the podcast full-time and here we are now we have uncle marv's it business podcast uh so what is why this is important or what is the podcast a vehicle for why does it keep you keep doing it

[00:28:28] so it started out as simply a way to to kind of give back to the community there were in those early days a lot of tips that i got from the people that did this before me and there was a lot of conversation that happened that wasn't happening with you know my local businesses here back then you know tech companies didn't want to talk to other tech companies yeah but we could talk through podcasting

[00:28:58] because we weren't worried about somebody in another state you know taking our business so that's kind of how it started and then it was just a matter of you know what when you know the opportunity came to bring the show back i'm like you know what i can give back to this business and that's where it started now it's evolved into a lot more because now there is

[00:29:25] this push in me to make sure that there is a voice in the space you mentioned for the smaller you know tech companies yeah i think there needs to be a public voice that says it's okay for us to be here that's right and a resource to those smaller companies to say hey look if you're looking for this in a vendor if you're looking for another company that's you know

[00:29:52] succeeding in this area or you're looking to chat about something i want to provide that space to them so the opportunity now is to provide more of a support system and kind of assist a lot of the communities that are out there you know the facebook groups the other podcast communities uh if i can lend my support to them i'm going to do that i love that i love that you can tell you're passionate about it

[00:30:22] um share what if you don't mind uncle marv share what are some of your biggest lessons or learnings from all these podcasts and all these all these uh interviews that you've done well i'm going to ask you to qualify that because are you talking about what have i learned just in our space what have i

[00:30:48] learned for my business personally yeah i guess in particular maybe from the podcast right you're doing it you're giving back has there been key lessons key takeaways obviously not everybody's running a podcast even if they're running a uh an it business so i'm curious if you've had some

[00:31:06] key lessons from that i think that probably the one key thing is that people want to engage engage in community they want to have access to resources and i think that you know if there was a time that i

[00:31:33] thought you know what i i'm not really you know making it big in this podcast thing you know i'm not getting a hundred thousand listeners and stuff like that but there are people that i have found that listen to my show and have reached out afterwards to say hey thank you for that and at first i was worried that you know

[00:32:02] well if i'm only reaching you know one or two people about this thing then i don't know if that's worth it but when i really sat back and thought about it each of those conversations that i've had if you add them all up it's actually a lot but for each individual it's something different that hit with them whether it was a you know referral to a vendor or whether it was a tip for their business i've even had some where

[00:32:31] they were like you know what i like the podcast i like the business stuff but you actually dove into a personal thing that i was happy you you brought up that needs to be brought up so what i have found is that there are people listening and they don't have to listen to every show and they don't have to believe in everything that i chat about but if there's something that they

[00:32:59] connect with that gives them support to continue on whether it's in business or life or just be happy about stuff that's what the that's what the main thing is for me so that's kind of what has resonated with me the most now there's obviously other things that you know i've worked out in terms of you know

[00:33:23] having you know the podcast has given me access to vendors where i can now you know talk to vendors you know through the podcast it's helped me with some backdoor stuff for my business that has been nice um i really can't say much more than that i mean it's the last uh i'd say the last 18 months has been so much of a whirlwind i probably haven't had enough time to sit back and think about oh my goodness what

[00:33:53] what have i learned in the last 18 months let me switch gears for a moment um there's a lot going on you got mb systems you've got your podcasts you got all kinds of interesting things going on the industry's changing the world's changing all these things uh what are some things you're looking forward to so the short answer is that i don't really look too far ahead okay so you know i don't have like a

[00:34:21] bucket list of things that i'm i'm looking forward to i am kind of in a space right now where i i do wonder where are things going to be for our industry in the coming years we are at a very interesting time

[00:34:43] where some some stuff's going to have to happen we have some of the biggest cyber security threats happening that are affecting everyone both small and large as solution providers we have to pay attention to both sides our clients as well as our vendors which puts us in a very tough spot

[00:35:07] it's a lot to keep up with especially if we have to make a decision as to which tool we're going to use and if something happens to that tool what does that mean for us not just you know for our clients but for us because we're going to end up in court you know if something happens and it may not be our fault

[00:35:31] so that's a very interesting thing we have to pay attention to i know that a lot of attention has been placed on the fact that you've got to have the right contract you've got to force your clients you know to do the minimal stuff and clients are pushing back there's a lot of parts of our industry that are commoditized so it is an interesting time so

[00:35:59] i think the next i don't know two to five years is going to be a very big window for us to figure some things out so tech wise that's kind of where i'm looking at and i'm hoping that i make it through that time and i've got another 10 to 15 years where i can figure out what's my

[00:36:23] end goal going to be so right now again i'm i'm content with where i'm at i'm happy with where i'm at so i don't tend to look too far down the road as to what's next i'm just gonna keep doing what i'm doing and as things need to change i'll change i love that what about with all your different podcasts what's exciting or what's got you fired up or passionate right now

[00:36:56] i think the biggest thing has been what has happened in the last 18 months like i said there's been a lot of new opportunities because of the podcast so i'm excited just to see where that continues to go being able to being able to go to conferences as a member of the media has been great not not just from the fact of one i can go to more conferences although it might be

[00:37:25] too many to some degree but i can actually get access to some things that most people don't get access to in terms of you know sitting in with the c levels of some of these companies and hearing their roadmap you know firsthand from a media perspective being able to interview people that i probably would not

[00:37:48] have access to if i were to just reach out on my own so that has been good getting some monetary support which is something i didn't push in the beginning um and part of that was in the beginning techs were like we don't want you to sell out but i think i found a way to do it without selling out so that i'm

[00:38:13] not you know catering to the vendors i can still talk openly you know about a vendor if you know if i you know have an issue with them and stuff but i am you know trying to be respectful of the vendors in the space um the same with other msps if msps are you know doing some some bad stuff in our industry we got to be able to to call that out yeah but at the same time be respectful and acknowledge the ones

[00:38:39] that are doing good and stuff so monetarily speaking it's allowed me to to go to these conferences i can get better tools you know better microphone better mixers uh find better services for hosting and streaming and stuff so there's a part of that that is exciting to see okay what can i do with the

[00:39:03] podcast that people are going to resonate with um you know can i live stream you know in remote locations and have people interested in that can i and i can i go visit other businesses and highlight them um i don't want to be like the youtube person where i've got a camera and i'm just walking around and and all of that stuff so i am trying to figure out what the next steps are for the podcast it has just

[00:39:33] been it's been eye-opening to what the possibilities are because you know back in the day it was just you know two people sitting on a you know google hangout and chatting and then throwing up an audio feed where you know now there's more things that i can be doing with uh video and streaming and

[00:39:54] again access to to new guests and uh it'll be interesting to see where that goes yeah so it is it is super interesting to see where it goes um and especially from an industry perspective uh you know we we can make our best predictions but they're just that um this uh this is amazing i i would love for you to

[00:40:17] share what's your um what you think would be most helpful if you got somebody listening that maybe they're you know maybe they want to run a solo it shop um and maybe they're too big and they want to be smaller maybe they're too small they want to be bigger maybe they're just not happy what what's some

[00:40:41] is there a book a conference any takeaways you have peer group i don't know but uh because you've been doing this for a while and i've interviewed some msps that are larger or smaller that are not happy so there's just a level you've reached that of happiness i think and uh a level it seems like with your clients where you have some synergy that not everybody reaches so um what do you think would be

[00:41:08] most helpful well i think the first thing is to find a way to get the support you need and it might be stepping out of the comfort zone for instance peer groups there are a lot of peer group opportunities out there now that you know will be supportive of you no matter

[00:41:37] which part of which part of the journey you're on i know that uh ascii has actually formed a set of peer groups where they put similar type businesses together similar in size similar in revenue so they do have groups that are for the small solo one two-man shops they do have medium size they have large so you can

[00:42:03] kind of get that support from the group because they're going to be just like you i know that a lot of the other vendors you know the htg htgs and this stuff there are peer groups out there for what you want to do now you just might not be able to find them so reaching out to me i'm sure you know a lot of places where you can refer people to um you can find those those support uh

[00:42:32] groups for you um again i do believe that the industry is big enough that there can be all size companies in this space yeah and there are vendors at every level that will support you and you just need to you know find them and if you can't reach out to me i'll i'll guide you and

[00:43:01] i don't know if i'm answering your question exactly the way you wanted to um but it's there's there's so much opportunity out there that there's really not a reason to not succeed if you want to you might be willing you know you might have to do a little extra work

[00:43:28] but i think that that's you know maybe a little old school to say this but you know sometimes you gotta work very true very true well uh uncle marv if you would plug uh help everybody figure out how to find you if they just heard that or anything else they loved it where's the best way to to find your

[00:43:50] podcast to find your business to find you online so i just redesigned a landing page at unclemarv.com so if you're going to want to hear any of my podcasts go there and you will find the it business

[00:44:11] podcast the unhealthy podcast and the unfamous podcast um so that's probably one place to go if you want to listen to podcasts and then that will direct you to the individual landing pages for each podcast uh if you want to just connect with me you can find me on linkedin and the facebook and just look for marvin b and you'll find me there i love that uh well thank you i really appreciate

[00:44:40] from the bottom of my heart the time you uh and energy put in today um thank you so much for being on msp mindset well thanks for having me and uh i hope i gave your listeners something to think about