Overcoming Imposter Syndrome & Getting Out of Your Comfort Zone, with Justin Esgar (MSP Titan #4)

[00:00:00] What's your biggest lesson? Be okay with taking risks. I know we've been talking about that a lot this episode, but it's...

[00:00:06] It's...

[00:00:07] For anyone who's listening, the biggest lesson isn't necessarily like, take more risk. It's be comfortable with who you are to do those things.

[00:00:19] Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset. Join me as I talk with Justin Esgar.

[00:00:25] We cover everything from Imposter Syndrome to things that just seem disparate, like running in MSP and a T-shirt business,

[00:00:33] organizing your conference and a podcast, and we tied all back together, and how you can overcome the fear of failure

[00:00:40] overcoming your imposter Syndrome.

[00:00:45] Why? Why do you start? Why this?

[00:00:48] I got fired.

[00:00:50] Let's get...

[00:00:51] Yeah, okay, so truth be told, we'll do a quick origin story I was bitten by a radioactive spider.

[00:00:56] No, I've always been into computers. I...

[00:01:03] My story is out there, so I'll just give the quick one.

[00:01:06] When I was five years old, I went to Florida with my mom for vacation to see my grandparents,

[00:01:11] and I come home and my dad had bought an Apple II C computer, and 12,000-dollar computer.

[00:01:18] He was 1885.

[00:01:20] And it was sitting on the dining room table, and I was like, weirdly enamored by this thing.

[00:01:24] So I got really into it, and I bought anything I can get my hands on, I have my parents' boys up like in the...

[00:01:28] And I got that magazine that the setter fold was like, code, you would type it in, learn basic, and all this stuff.

[00:01:35] It meant a lot to me.

[00:01:37] And I grew up in a pretty nice neighborhood, you know, and so we had computers at our school as well.

[00:01:42] And throughout time, then we started... We got other Apple computers, so I remember...

[00:01:46] My earliest memory is having a Mac classic in our school, in our school computer lab.

[00:01:53] And I remember what we did on it, but I do recall very vividly that the teacher who...

[00:01:58] I understood computers at such a young age, like, I've to like, you know, 10 years old.

[00:02:04] She was like, your mind's going to be blown when you go to middle school because they have color computers and I was like, what?

[00:02:10] And so in sixth grade, I went to middle school and they had a Mac LC2 Mac LC7 Mac about it.

[00:02:17] And these color computers, and my mind was blown.

[00:02:22] And there's a good story that came out of where I grew up, where the computer teacher, you know,

[00:02:28] I knew more than she did to be honest.

[00:02:30] And so they had Microsoft Word that they wanted to install on all the computers.

[00:02:34] And this is back when like Microsoft Word from Mac was like 21-3.5 inch floppy disk, you know, like it's a camera for that.

[00:02:41] Yeah, we got it with a really big rubber band.

[00:02:43] Like it was not...

[00:02:44] I think they're used at based on how many floppy disks.

[00:02:47] Exactly.

[00:02:47] Yeah, it was price-purd disk.

[00:02:49] Don't say that 10 times fast.

[00:02:50] It's going to fast and it'll come out wrong.

[00:02:53] And I said, hey, can I install this on my computer at home?

[00:02:56] And she was like, yeah, because at the time no one knew what end user license equipment is working.

[00:03:01] So I go home, I install it.

[00:03:02] And when you install it, it says, what's your name?

[00:03:05] So I was like, Justin, that's Gar.

[00:03:06] What are your initials?

[00:03:07] Jay, cool.

[00:03:08] I come back and she goes, hey, how the install go.

[00:03:10] And I went, fine, she goes, great.

[00:03:11] Now do me a favor and install it on all these computers.

[00:03:13] That's a sure.

[00:03:14] And then from that moment until well after I graduated high school, all of those computers

[00:03:20] when you opened up Microsoft Word said, registered to Justin S. Gar.

[00:03:23] Because the registration for my name tagged to the first disk of the set and there was no way to undo it.

[00:03:30] So people knew me.

[00:03:34] I even had friends at high school because this is back when like A.L. and some messenger was big

[00:03:39] where like their way message was like, hey, remember seeing that name Justin S. Gar on all the computers in middle school?

[00:03:43] I'm hanging out with that guy.

[00:03:45] Like, it's just super.

[00:03:46] So I've always been into computers, right?

[00:03:49] And that carried through.

[00:03:52] I got my DBA for virtual computers when I was like 16 years old so I can like help my neighbors

[00:03:58] with their computers and I wasn't only doing Mac.

[00:04:00] I was doing some PC stuff as well.

[00:04:02] I taught computers at a summer camp for many years.

[00:04:06] I did all these things.

[00:04:07] So I went to college and I did computer work there.

[00:04:11] I got out of college in 2002.

[00:04:15] Not at the time I thought it was, we all have it was like, oh, it's the worst economy since day of

[00:04:19] game. Whatever. But now obviously things have gotten worse.

[00:04:23] Couldn't find a job.

[00:04:24] And so I was tempting for quite some time.

[00:04:26] And I went away with a friend of mine.

[00:04:29] And while I was gone my sister who happened to live in Manhattan, who had an e-Mac,

[00:04:34] which was the educational version of the iMac, the all-in-one.

[00:04:37] So jobs had already left and come back.

[00:04:39] At least the iMac. This is not the e-Mac.

[00:04:41] And she needed some help with it and there was a local tech place near her apartment in

[00:04:46] city.

[00:04:47] And she got the guys business card and I came home.

[00:04:49] She's like, hey, why don't you call them maybe you can get a, maybe you got a job.

[00:04:53] So you're called.

[00:04:54] Hey, huh?

[00:04:56] About how old?

[00:04:57] Uh, 24 at this point.

[00:05:00] Okay.

[00:05:00] 23.

[00:05:02] And so I called them and I said, hey, you know,

[00:05:05] there's what I do. I'm kind of more of a web designer now.

[00:05:07] But like I can do computers and they were like, well, we're firing somebody on Friday.

[00:05:11] When you come in for an interview and like that should have been a red flag.

[00:05:16] So I went in and I went in and a full suit in the whole thing,

[00:05:19] proper interview and the guy who's interviewing me was just like,

[00:05:22] no offense Andy, you're fat dude at the time.

[00:05:25] Like, fat, slubby dude with like a t-shirt like his butt crack was taken out as legs were up.

[00:05:29] But his desk like, I was like, what am I doing?

[00:05:30] I did not look like I'm along there.

[00:05:33] And they hired me basically on the spot.

[00:05:34] And so I started in February of 2004. So I was just about turn 24.

[00:05:40] And I worked for that guy Scott for a while was the owner and he was the VP.

[00:05:46] And in 2005 he sold it to a local ISP and then from 2005 to 2008,

[00:05:50] basically whoever became the manager of the Mac department, which is what we were when we brought over,

[00:05:55] inevitably got fired.

[00:05:55] So in 2008, Friday January 4th, I moved apartments, Friday January 11th,

[00:06:00] fired from this company.

[00:06:04] That following Monday, I went to Mac world.

[00:06:06] They were supposed to stay for it. They didn't. I'm still bitter.

[00:06:09] And then I came home and I started my own company.

[00:06:11] I started virtual computers.

[00:06:13] I didn't have an NDI and I had a non-compete.

[00:06:15] So I clients who just came across with me.

[00:06:17] So I was able to like kind of kickstart a little easier than most M.S.P.s.

[00:06:19] which was good.

[00:06:21] And yeah, I've been doing it since then.

[00:06:23] And from that so much has happened.

[00:06:27] Like, you know, our company 16 years old, like we said.

[00:06:29] But in that time, I started a software development company.

[00:06:33] And we got into fights with a wired magazine and Apple and ink magazine.

[00:06:36] And all these people would about our app.

[00:06:39] We, I started a conference.

[00:06:40] I've written a book.

[00:06:41] I've spoken at conferences.

[00:06:43] I started a conference.

[00:06:44] I've made a T-shirt store.

[00:06:46] I wrote a children's book.

[00:06:47] I got rid of the software company.

[00:06:49] I started a new software company.

[00:06:50] We doubled in hardware.

[00:06:51] We doubled in acquisitions.

[00:06:53] I now do Apple repair.

[00:06:55] I also do Apple training.

[00:06:56] So like a lot of things have just like stems from it.

[00:07:00] And it's just like all of this started because my dad bought a computer when I was

[00:07:04] always old.

[00:07:05] Because I was like, you know what?

[00:07:06] I don't like sports.

[00:07:07] This is the problem.

[00:07:07] I went to a sleep weight camp.

[00:07:09] I'm talking about this.

[00:07:09] My sons in sleep weight camp becomes almost like seven weeks.

[00:07:12] It's totally normal over here.

[00:07:14] But I went to sleep weight camp.

[00:07:14] I hated it because back in 1992 and I went.

[00:07:20] Being a nerd wasn't cool.

[00:07:22] Right?

[00:07:24] So like I went to a sports camp.

[00:07:26] And everyone's like, come on.

[00:07:27] Throw the basketball just in and I'm like, no.

[00:07:30] I want to go work in the radio station to which my now nine year old son when I told

[00:07:33] him this was like, what's a radio station?

[00:07:35] I was like, I hate so much.

[00:07:38] But yeah, so I've always just been into computers.

[00:07:43] And I found that whilst I like computers in general, I like technology, just a little

[00:07:50] bit more broadly.

[00:07:52] What I really like and when this is what I figured out in the last say five years or

[00:07:57] so is I like the technology because I like how it helps businesses and I really like

[00:08:02] helping businesses grow.

[00:08:04] And that's kind of where my brain is.

[00:08:07] I'm not a technologist first business person second.

[00:08:09] I'm very much a business person.

[00:08:12] Like, I was like the number one candy seller in the FBLA three years running and

[00:08:17] you know, crap like that.

[00:08:18] I was always starting new things and starting new businesses in very entrepreneurial.

[00:08:22] I like helping businesses grow and I use technology to power that both internally and

[00:08:28] externally so that's that's the whole.

[00:08:32] Michigan says they say in one fell swoop.

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[00:09:13] There's a lot of unpack there.

[00:09:15] You're all this different things you've created from books to T-shirts to businesses.

[00:09:21] But you said your focus on business.

[00:09:22] So how do you take all those things?

[00:09:24] Not all of one, but a lot of them are technical businesses and focus them into the

[00:09:30] things you have now.

[00:09:35] I kind of cover a couple different aspects of that right?

[00:09:37] So when we're doing technology, we're always looking for technology that's going to

[00:09:45] help that company.

[00:09:47] We're never putting in technology that's going to hinder somebody, which is why moving

[00:09:53] along the lines of where a lot of MSPs are going now with security and compliance, it's

[00:09:57] a little bit on the line because you need to be secure, you need to comply but I can't

[00:10:01] risk it affecting your productivity.

[00:10:07] Right.

[00:10:07] I really like helping them.

[00:10:11] And the biggest challenge for them is balancing the dollar spent against what it's

[00:10:20] worth, like is the juice worth the squeeze.

[00:10:22] And it always comes down to me.

[00:10:23] I want you to spend money on this because it's going to increase your productivity.

[00:10:27] Case in point, I have a client who has a nine year old hero in their office and the Wi-Fi

[00:10:32] is crappy.

[00:10:34] And I'm like, I can sell you a new, unify whatever for $149 and they're still thinking

[00:10:40] about it.

[00:10:41] And I'm like, I'm going to just buy it and build it because trust me, it's not the amount

[00:10:46] of time you're wasting is more.

[00:10:49] So I do push businesses in that regard.

[00:10:54] I try to find systems that tie in with one another.

[00:10:57] And I do tell my clients only be at the most, I don't listen.

[00:11:01] If you're thinking about getting something, talk to me this way.

[00:11:03] I know, because the last thing I want to do is get someone who's going to be like, by

[00:11:07] the way, we bought 45 licenses of blah, blah, blah.

[00:11:10] And I'm like, guess what?

[00:11:11] That doesn't work on 30 of your computers.

[00:11:16] So I try to push people into that and into that.

[00:11:19] And I've taken two angles of this.

[00:11:24] So if you go to virtual consulting on languages that are main on bitch, you'll see there's

[00:11:29] a IT consulting that's really for businesses.

[00:11:31] And you have four consultants, four clients for consultants.

[00:11:35] The four clients is virtual computers.

[00:11:38] We're an MSP, we're MacBase, we'll help you with your business.

[00:11:40] Yeah, I gotta get it.

[00:11:42] If four consultants though, is the things I'm doing to help other consultants get better.

[00:11:47] That is one of my coaching that is my conference, that is my book, that is things, our

[00:11:57] podcast, all things MSP podcasts.

[00:11:59] There are things that I do there.

[00:12:00] So I like helping both sides of it.

[00:12:04] I like helping other MSPs who then help clients, and then I also help obviously my own clients

[00:12:10] and I like seeing all of that stuff grow.

[00:12:12] So I try to target in that.

[00:12:14] And again, like I said earlier, being business first technology second puts a good spin

[00:12:19] on things because so many people on our industry, they come into being an MSP because

[00:12:26] they're good at technology.

[00:12:27] Right?

[00:12:28] I was good at technology, therefore I'll start an MSP because it's really be only

[00:12:32] I know how.

[00:12:33] And then what happens?

[00:12:35] They don't know how to get more clients, they don't know how to do sales, they don't

[00:12:37] know how to do billing, they don't know how to do this, I don't know that.

[00:12:40] And so I like to work on those parts.

[00:12:44] I help them with those parts.

[00:12:46] Another one that I help a lot with is I just did a presentation a couple of months

[00:12:51] ago at MacAdmin's unimposter syndrome.

[00:12:54] I was one of the few non-technical hears how you deploy a printer to 400 computers

[00:12:59] with one curl command or some garbage like that.

[00:13:04] And I do an entire session on imposter syndrome and I show them that even myself,

[00:13:09] 16 years in, have it from time to time.

[00:13:13] Like I shouldn't be here talking to you.

[00:13:14] Like with that, who the hell am I to be on this show?

[00:13:17] Talk to you about this stuff.

[00:13:19] But here I am and I'm talking.

[00:13:20] And I just got my feedback from them yesterday and it put me over the moon.

[00:13:24] And I think that's really what I do it for, like that kind of stuff.

[00:13:27] That's why I like you and my conference also.

[00:13:29] The conference takes so much out of me.

[00:13:32] But at the end of it, I get feedback from people.

[00:13:36] Yes, a lot of them are my friends.

[00:13:37] But I get feedback from people that really just does it for me.

[00:13:42] And that's what keeps me going and motivated to like keep doing this stuff

[00:13:45] and helping other businesses.

[00:13:46] I like seeing these companies grow.

[00:13:48] I like seeing these companies move the needle.

[00:13:50] I like seeing them understand all of the non-technical crap.

[00:13:57] Because I, I see people we're going to problem solving.

[00:14:00] Yeah.

[00:14:01] This is broken.

[00:14:02] Did you reboot it?

[00:14:04] Now it's fixed.

[00:14:05] A to B.

[00:14:06] But there's so much in a business that is not a simple answer.

[00:14:14] I can't get more clients is not a A to B answer.

[00:14:19] That's right.

[00:14:21] So how do we figure that out?

[00:14:23] Is that working with one of the marketing experts that I know,

[00:14:27] or branding experts that I know,

[00:14:30] is that signing up for some of those services

[00:14:33] that we're all aware of?

[00:14:34] Don't, by the way.

[00:14:37] You know, what can we do?

[00:14:39] I had a friend of mine.

[00:14:42] I'm not going to mention his name.

[00:14:44] But he called me up and he was upset because he hadn't had a sal

[00:14:47] in over a year and a half of for a new client.

[00:14:49] And he was a member of one of those programs.

[00:14:54] And I was like, how's that working out for you?

[00:14:57] And he's like, what do I do?

[00:14:58] And I was like, I don't know if I can curse on this,

[00:15:00] but I'll try to do the clean version of it.

[00:15:03] But I basically told him, I was like,

[00:15:04] I have now stuck a stick of dynamite in your butt.

[00:15:08] And I looked at the fuse and your back is against the wall.

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:11] What are you going to do?

[00:15:13] And so I've been following up on him being like,

[00:15:16] get your hands dirty.

[00:15:17] How are you going to do this?

[00:15:17] What's going on?

[00:15:18] Where are we at with that client?

[00:15:19] Have you talked them?

[00:15:20] How do you get more clients?

[00:15:21] Because at some point, and I said to them,

[00:15:23] I said, when you started in this business,

[00:15:25] you weren't a member of that program.

[00:15:26] How do you get clients then?

[00:15:27] Like sometimes, I'm going to go,

[00:15:29] I'd like challenging people like that.

[00:15:30] And I like seeing the results of that because when he sent me a message

[00:15:32] being like the, oh, he's like, oh, we closed this deal.

[00:15:39] I'm like, yes, dude.

[00:15:41] Yes.

[00:15:41] I don't get anything of that.

[00:15:43] He's a friend of mine.

[00:15:44] I wasn't, I'm not helping him.

[00:15:45] I'm not asking for money.

[00:15:48] I just was like, I was excited for him

[00:15:52] that he got that.

[00:15:52] Yeah.

[00:15:53] That's all.

[00:15:54] So that's what does it for me?

[00:15:56] Yeah.

[00:15:56] So speaking in a wrong way, when we talked last,

[00:15:59] you did mention a little bit of the imposter syndrome.

[00:16:02] So tell me about going through that yourself.

[00:16:06] What is that?

[00:16:07] Well, what did you start recognizing that?

[00:16:11] I want to preface this with everybody goes through this.

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:17] Okay.

[00:16:18] And if you're listening to this,

[00:16:22] one, I want you to realize you're not alone.

[00:16:24] Because like that's a big thing.

[00:16:25] Because we all think what's really stupid about people in our,

[00:16:29] I'm sure they're sure this is an other industry,

[00:16:30] but I can't speak on those other industries.

[00:16:32] But I can tell you that in our industry,

[00:16:34] so many of us feel like we're alone on a boat

[00:16:37] in the middle of the ocean and there's no one around us.

[00:16:40] That's right.

[00:16:41] And as an apple consultant,

[00:16:43] that is less so because there's such a great network

[00:16:46] within the apple consultants network.

[00:16:48] Like we have our Slack and we have group meetings

[00:16:50] and we have all these things.

[00:16:51] It's less so, but it still exists.

[00:16:53] Because I'm one of 30 apple consultants in New York City

[00:16:55] and like I don't talk to any other ones in New York City.

[00:16:58] And I do talk to my friend Tim and Seattle,

[00:17:01] my friend Kevin and Portland.

[00:17:02] I have almost a,

[00:17:05] not by date.

[00:17:06] What would you call it three times a week?

[00:17:08] It used to be every day.

[00:17:09] And then it's three times a week called

[00:17:10] with a bunch of apple consultants in LA,

[00:17:13] which don't wanna ask me how I got invited to,

[00:17:14] but I got invited and I never left and they hate me now.

[00:17:19] excuse me.

[00:17:20] And so that's helped that,

[00:17:22] but in reality,

[00:17:23] like everyone really feels like they're alone on this boat.

[00:17:26] And the truth is that that's actually not true,

[00:17:28] or we're not.

[00:17:29] A lot of us are going through the same thing.

[00:17:31] And so let's start that.

[00:17:34] The second thing I'm gonna start with is

[00:17:35] if you really do feel like you're completely alone,

[00:17:39] please seek help.

[00:17:41] Like whether it's a friend or a professional,

[00:17:44] at some point during that level,

[00:17:45] like please seek to talk to somebody.

[00:17:48] Because I'm a big proponent in getting professional help.

[00:17:51] I'm a big proponent in,

[00:17:53] we have lizard brains and things are wrong with it.

[00:17:56] Like let all that be.

[00:17:57] So number one, you're not alone number two,

[00:17:59] if you desperately think you are,

[00:18:01] please talk to somebody.

[00:18:02] Okay, go.

[00:18:02] But those are the side of me.

[00:18:06] I did this presentation about imposter syndrome

[00:18:08] and I started it with,

[00:18:09] I shouldn't be the person giving this presentation.

[00:18:12] I set the ground rules.

[00:18:17] And I was doing the presentation while I was writing it,

[00:18:21] there was a part about

[00:18:24] about that feeling of anxiety.

[00:18:26] Because imposter syndrome is really like,

[00:18:28] I don't think I can do this.

[00:18:30] You entast with something and you go like,

[00:18:31] I don't think I can do this.

[00:18:32] And then you aim for perfection.

[00:18:34] You never get there because perfection's not a thing.

[00:18:37] And then you feel like you completely failed at it.

[00:18:40] And then you get praise,

[00:18:41] but you don't accept that praise.

[00:18:42] And so then you get to ask to do something else

[00:18:44] and you're like, well I screwed up this last thing

[00:18:45] and then you get into this cycle.

[00:18:49] 100%.

[00:18:49] And there was one when I was writing one of the steps

[00:18:53] about perfection.

[00:18:54] I actually got a phone call from a client

[00:18:56] that my contact at that client was leaving.

[00:18:58] My contact is the one who brought us in.

[00:18:59] And we've only been in this client for three months.

[00:19:02] She was being let go.

[00:19:04] And the reason was the company didn't feel like

[00:19:06] technology was moving fast enough.

[00:19:09] And she was the blame.

[00:19:10] And in that split second when she told me this,

[00:19:13] I was like, are we screwing up?

[00:19:15] Do we have the machines?

[00:19:16] We got a spit shine every computer.

[00:19:17] Are they all in M&M?

[00:19:17] Have we moved them all over?

[00:19:18] Have we done backup?

[00:19:19] Or were we doing this?

[00:19:19] We're doing this?

[00:19:20] In like a nanosecond.

[00:19:22] My brain was on fire.

[00:19:25] None of this was my fault.

[00:19:28] Her being let go is not my fault.

[00:19:29] I'm sure there was other things involved.

[00:19:31] There were catalysts that were in play well before

[00:19:34] because when you let somebody go

[00:19:35] unless they're stealing from you,

[00:19:37] it's not usually a very short play,

[00:19:39] especially in the industry they're in.

[00:19:43] And but it didn't matter.

[00:19:47] Like I got the call and I'm rationalizing,

[00:19:49] I was like, all right, we're good.

[00:19:52] But in that nanosecond,

[00:19:57] part of me was like who the hell am I to tell you

[00:20:01] or your company had to take care of their technology?

[00:20:04] What do you want?

[00:20:04] No, that you can't Google.

[00:20:06] Right.

[00:20:07] I've been in business 16 years

[00:20:08] and this phone call happened in May.

[00:20:14] Right, we're recording this in August.

[00:20:16] I don't know what this is going to go about.

[00:20:17] So it happens.

[00:20:20] It happens to all of us and it sucks.

[00:20:25] But what was great about doing the conference was

[00:20:32] I met so many great people at my presentation,

[00:20:37] which is online, by the way,

[00:20:38] if you want to go check out my presentation,

[00:20:40] MacAdvents puts all of the presentations online.

[00:20:43] You can go watch it.

[00:20:44] But I had people sharing stories and all these things

[00:20:47] and then afterwards for the rest

[00:20:49] because all the good stuff they had me go day one at nine a.m.

[00:20:51] Which like great, let's get the emotional

[00:20:53] out of the way first, right?

[00:20:56] People are crying at 9, 20 in the morning

[00:20:58] and was like, they want to come for the world

[00:20:59] going, no, man, like it was ridiculous.

[00:21:02] And but for the rest of the conference,

[00:21:03] I had some really awesome interactions with people

[00:21:08] who really felt like I changed their,

[00:21:12] one guy was like you changed my life.

[00:21:14] I'm like, let me, me?

[00:21:19] I did that.

[00:21:21] You sure you want to take my advice?

[00:21:24] Because again, I'm having a sponsor syndrome

[00:21:25] about this whole thing, right?

[00:21:26] Like who the fMI to tell you how to live your life, man?

[00:21:30] That's right.

[00:21:31] But yeah, it really did change him.

[00:21:34] And he's written me a couple emails

[00:21:35] and we've talked and I just got my feedback

[00:21:37] from the show the other day.

[00:21:40] And one of these was like, it's good to see

[00:21:42] that somebody who has been doing this for so long

[00:21:46] still feels the same way I do.

[00:21:48] Something to that effect, I can't,

[00:21:50] that's all.

[00:21:50] A lot of lights here, it's hard to read.

[00:21:52] So it happens to all of us.

[00:21:58] But it's how you power through it to do other things.

[00:22:00] And I mean, I had the same problem with my conference.

[00:22:05] We just had our 11th year during our conference.

[00:22:09] It's all just me.

[00:22:11] That's crazy.

[00:22:13] So I want to hear, I want to talk about the conference,

[00:22:15] but I want to stand this for a minute.

[00:22:16] Yeah, and post your syndrome.

[00:22:18] So thank you for saying it.

[00:22:20] We all have it.

[00:22:21] You're not alone, join the club.

[00:22:25] And, you know, seek help, talk to others.

[00:22:30] But how do you deal with it?

[00:22:32] Could you still have it?

[00:22:32] 16 years in, you had it this year?

[00:22:34] Like, I'm not new to this.

[00:22:36] I've been doing this for a simple little amount of time.

[00:22:37] I still have that.

[00:22:40] So how do you wrestle with it?

[00:22:41] How do you, I need to deal with it?

[00:22:46] The funny answer that I usually give people

[00:22:48] is behind me there is a couch.

[00:22:50] So like when the lights turn off,

[00:22:51] I just like curl up and we'll balance our crying.

[00:22:55] The legit answer is I talked to my wife.

[00:22:59] I talked to my friends.

[00:23:00] I talked to my, I have really good friends in the industry.

[00:23:04] I have a pretty good team.

[00:23:07] I have a good support system and I have a good employee team.

[00:23:11] There's one thing I always like to tote around,

[00:23:13] which is breathing.

[00:23:17] I know it sounds like hokey pokey, especially in our industry.

[00:23:19] Like no one really wants to believe in them.

[00:23:21] Like, I'm not telling you to go do like Iowa scum.

[00:23:23] I'm telling you to control your breath.

[00:23:24] Like there's a difference.

[00:23:25] And so I actually wear this necklace.

[00:23:28] This thing, it's hard to see on camera,

[00:23:30] but this thing is a commosu, commosu whistle.

[00:23:34] It's like an ancient Japanese tribe

[00:23:35] that were like these baskets I had

[00:23:36] and they basically hold like flutes.

[00:23:38] They look at the clarinets of your mom, clarinets.

[00:23:41] It just controls your breathing.

[00:23:42] So you like breathe in

[00:23:43] and this thing focuses your breath out

[00:23:44] in a very, very thin, pinpoint way.

[00:23:47] And so it helps you like just stop for 10 seconds.

[00:23:52] And to be honest, my reliance on this isn't

[00:23:55] that great, easy worse for sure.

[00:23:58] Having it there, knowing it's there, really helps.

[00:24:00] I don't think there's been a day where I since

[00:24:02] I've gotten it that I've not worn it.

[00:24:04] But when I feel like something's happening

[00:24:08] like it's an anxiety or traumatic or whatever from this,

[00:24:13] I just breathe.

[00:24:15] It seems like I said, it seems so hokey

[00:24:17] to say something like this, but like take a second.

[00:24:21] Because again, the other big thing in our industry

[00:24:23] is like everything moves so freaking fast.

[00:24:26] Oh yeah.

[00:24:27] Right?

[00:24:28] And I'm from New York where things move 10 times faster

[00:24:31] than everywhere else.

[00:24:32] Like I have clients in Iowa and I'm like,

[00:24:34] can we get this done?

[00:24:35] And they're like, you just asked us that

[00:24:37] for the second time, four seconds ago.

[00:24:41] You know, like that's the level of that.

[00:24:45] So taking a second to just breathe

[00:24:48] and like reframe your mind really helps.

[00:24:51] I have all of my instructions on what to do

[00:24:53] and think like I don't totally in the video.

[00:24:54] So I would really tell everybody

[00:24:56] to go watch the video.

[00:24:58] But yeah, breathe, refocus your mind.

[00:25:00] Realize that you're not an imposter.

[00:25:03] If when you get out of it, you realize,

[00:25:05] like I think that's one of the most powerful things.

[00:25:07] Actually, somebody asked me this at the conference.

[00:25:11] They said something like, hey, I had a job

[00:25:14] and I felt like an imposter there

[00:25:15] and I overcame it and blah, blah, blah, whatever.

[00:25:18] And they were like, now I have a new job.

[00:25:22] But I feel like an imposter here.

[00:25:23] What can I do?

[00:25:25] And I said, the one thing you have to tell yourself

[00:25:27] is you've already overcome it once.

[00:25:29] You can do it again.

[00:25:31] Like it's, I say it's like, again,

[00:25:34] it's like, it's our lizard brains not being able

[00:25:35] to manage with by the way, what am I feedback was?

[00:25:38] We don't have lizard brains, they're mammal brains

[00:25:40] because we have emotions.

[00:25:40] I was like enough.

[00:25:43] That's funny.

[00:25:44] But that's kind of where I'm at, right?

[00:25:45] Like it's, can you reframe your thought process?

[00:25:50] Can you change what you're thinking?

[00:25:51] It took a couple of seconds in regards to that client

[00:25:56] to for me to take a breath, take a beat,

[00:26:00] realize that it's not actually our fault

[00:26:02] that this person is being let go

[00:26:03] from that company.

[00:26:05] And then I was fine.

[00:26:06] Just move on, mate.

[00:26:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:10] I love it.

[00:26:12] We've tried to be intentional about several things,

[00:26:15] including my mom boarding a new employee.

[00:26:18] And so they won, it's exciting.

[00:26:20] You're somewhere new, it's cool.

[00:26:22] You got the job.

[00:26:24] Especially if it's not a role you've done before day two

[00:26:26] or like feel like an imposter yet?

[00:26:29] You know?

[00:26:30] Because it's normal and there might be a period

[00:26:34] for days, weeks and runs,

[00:26:35] if you've taken an underneath role,

[00:26:37] you see if it's a radical change

[00:26:38] where you're gonna feel like I was this, that did this.

[00:26:41] And now this over here,

[00:26:42] like I don't feel like I'm quite one of those yet.

[00:26:46] And so I think just realizing everybody goes through it

[00:26:50] but it was really cool to hear you say,

[00:26:52] you know, 16 years in,

[00:26:55] it doesn't necessarily just go away.

[00:26:57] It doesn't.

[00:26:58] You know what's really cool is I always try

[00:26:59] to bring some interactivity to my presentations.

[00:27:02] And years ago I did a self-bi Southwest presentation

[00:27:05] with my real girlfriend, Sweet John.

[00:27:07] And so we made up this thing called the hashtag handshake.

[00:27:10] So the rest of the conference,

[00:27:11] people would do the hashtag handshake to us.

[00:27:13] And so over this conference,

[00:27:14] I did the sign language eye,

[00:27:15] like a like a picnic and you know,

[00:27:16] she picked you up on a double tap over your heart.

[00:27:18] And it was great because I'd be like online getting food

[00:27:21] like in my own world and from across the room I'd hear,

[00:27:24] just that.

[00:27:26] You know, like they would,

[00:27:27] I would see them double tap at me

[00:27:29] and like everyone's like looking around

[00:27:30] and what kind of gang symbols is doing up

[00:27:32] at a tech conference?

[00:27:34] Like it was just that kind of stuff really,

[00:27:38] that showed me that I wasn't being

[00:27:40] pausere telling the story.

[00:27:43] Like feedback is where that loop should end.

[00:27:47] It's when you don't believe your feedback,

[00:27:50] which is why when I get feedback like this document

[00:27:52] I got yesterday, I was so excited about it.

[00:27:55] I like read it and I was,

[00:27:59] I'm not typically a happy or person working technology.

[00:28:03] I mean, who was really hard at,

[00:28:06] but I read this and I literally,

[00:28:08] I think I've smiled harder in the last couple of weeks

[00:28:12] as I did reading the feedback from some of these people.

[00:28:15] And that's where really it does it for me.

[00:28:17] It improved to me that I can do this.

[00:28:19] And what's funny is I have a friend,

[00:28:20] this guy Sean Spencer who like,

[00:28:23] this is his thing.

[00:28:23] His thing is to talk to like executives

[00:28:25] about imposter syndrome.

[00:28:26] I'm like, Sean, look what I got.

[00:28:27] He's like a proud of you man.

[00:28:29] Oh, yeah!

[00:28:29] Like I just like these stupid,

[00:28:31] it took a weird feedback loop, right?

[00:28:33] But it's what does it and really kind of made it,

[00:28:38] made it all worth it for me.

[00:28:40] Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:41] No, I don't think it's super at all.

[00:28:43] And I think what's cool is you put yourself out there.

[00:28:46] Right?

[00:28:46] You had to be vulnerable to do that

[00:28:47] and that's what I'm learning, I need to do is,

[00:28:51] you know, be vulnerable if I'm going to get out there

[00:28:53] and you never know who's going to join you.

[00:28:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:28:56] Speaking of that, a little bit different,

[00:28:59] but tell me about your conference.

[00:29:00] Why I started conference, tell me about this ace's conference?

[00:29:05] I started a conference because I'm a Sato-Masicus

[00:29:08] and I hate everyone including myself.

[00:29:09] No.

[00:29:15] I started aces.

[00:29:18] The real reason behind, I started aces was

[00:29:20] I was trying to figure out how to fix my own business.

[00:29:22] So that guy who I worked for

[00:29:24] who sold his company, when I started my own,

[00:29:27] I did things the way he did things.

[00:29:30] And I was using the same ticketing ideals

[00:29:33] and the same contract ideals

[00:29:34] but like going back and remembering like,

[00:29:37] that guy was horrible with money.

[00:29:39] My paycheck would bounce from times to time.

[00:29:41] He would yell at customers.

[00:29:43] He would yell at his father to get more money from him.

[00:29:45] Like it was just like,

[00:29:46] and I was thinking about something,

[00:29:47] why am I doing my business the way that guy did?

[00:29:50] He's a horrible role model for me to follow.

[00:29:54] And I guarantee we held never hear this.

[00:29:55] And if you do hear this,

[00:29:57] I'm not gonna say your name.

[00:29:58] But if you do hear this, I'm sorry, but you're worth.

[00:30:00] Let's be honest.

[00:30:01] We know you're going through a tough time in life

[00:30:03] and I don't excuse you now

[00:30:04] but like you were pretty horrible.

[00:30:07] That's a work for it.

[00:30:07] You was great to work for, but like just in general.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:11] And the only feedback you're gonna get

[00:30:13] is like just to just rip this guy and do what you're talking about.

[00:30:16] Sorry, so I started going to,

[00:30:19] there's not a lot of Mac related conference

[00:30:21] and they're definitely weren't back in 2008, 2009, 2009, 2009.

[00:30:24] So I started going to some of them

[00:30:26] and because I was doing my software company

[00:30:29] I actually got in some of the speaking circuits

[00:30:31] as something, one of them being Mac tech

[00:30:33] but or is our Mac admins

[00:30:34] but then there was this one in LA called BackTack

[00:30:36] and I would go and I would meet up with other consultants.

[00:30:38] I don't really have a big network back then

[00:30:40] as I do now.

[00:30:42] And I started asking questions about their business.

[00:30:45] How do you do ticketing?

[00:30:47] How do you, what email format do you use?

[00:30:49] How do you manage computers?

[00:30:51] Because this is also well before MZM was like a thing

[00:30:54] for Mac, right?

[00:30:56] But between 2008 and 2008, 2000,

[00:30:58] I would say 15 was like a rough time

[00:31:01] to be able to manage computers for Mac.

[00:31:04] Like it was a lot of VPN in.

[00:31:05] It was a lot of remote desktop.

[00:31:06] It was a lot of remote desktop and remote machine

[00:31:08] to remote desktop but to another machine.

[00:31:11] So I would ask these questions

[00:31:13] and above all the consultants who I knew

[00:31:15] and met, no one gave me the same answer

[00:31:20] and no one gave me an answer that was good enough for me.

[00:31:25] And so I was sitting at the bar at Mac admins.

[00:31:29] It's at the Penn State or hotel.

[00:31:30] So there's like a bar.

[00:31:31] I think it's called Legends

[00:31:34] and I was sitting there with two other consultants

[00:31:36] and I was talking about this idea

[00:31:37] that I wanted to start a conference.

[00:31:38] And they both wanted to get in on them.

[00:31:39] I'm left early in the project

[00:31:40] and one of them stayed with me for two years

[00:31:41] and we launched this conference.

[00:31:44] And I thought, where's part about this?

[00:31:45] Was I thought it was going to be the greatest thing

[00:31:47] for Apple consultants

[00:31:47] because they were like 1200 Apple consultants at the time.

[00:31:50] So I booked a room block for 250 people

[00:31:52] at the New Orleans Helton on the water

[00:31:54] and I got 55 attendees.

[00:31:56] So I ended up having to pay New Orleans

[00:31:57] Helton $20,000 for the unused rooms,

[00:32:00] which by the way, they 100% use those rooms.

[00:32:04] They just find, you know what I mean?

[00:32:08] And I had a conference.

[00:32:10] I just did it.

[00:32:12] I got speakers, I got my friends,

[00:32:13] I called everyone I knew.

[00:32:15] I was like, come come come come come come come come.

[00:32:19] And it's been going since.

[00:32:21] The worst part about it is I haven't learned

[00:32:23] an absolute thing because I spent

[00:32:24] in which I'm like running around being like,

[00:32:26] is there two gold?

[00:32:26] You got coffee, you're what water you need.

[00:32:28] Doesn't it matter?

[00:32:29] My wife, I'm writing a new book called

[00:32:31] Hadisart Conference, it's one page,

[00:32:32] just as dope.

[00:32:38] And so the conference is actually really allowed me to,

[00:32:44] it is granted me two amazing opportunities

[00:32:47] that I never, I never saw coming

[00:32:52] when I originally was scoping out the idea

[00:32:55] for the conference.

[00:32:58] Because when I originally scoped the conference,

[00:32:59] I was like, I'm gonna listen

[00:33:00] to all these other experts.

[00:33:01] I'm gonna be in a tent,

[00:33:02] like I'm putting it together, whatever, sure,

[00:33:04] but I'm gonna be in a tenty.

[00:33:06] And I wanna listen, I wanna see what other people are doing.

[00:33:10] And that hasn't really, like I said,

[00:33:11] that hasn't really happened

[00:33:12] because there's so much going on.

[00:33:13] But the other two things that have come out of it,

[00:33:16] one, it has allowed me to meet so many wonderful people.

[00:33:22] And it's giving me the leg up on the ability

[00:33:24] to say if I pick up a new client now

[00:33:28] and I need someone in Iowa, Illinois,

[00:33:36] Atlanta, Jacksonville, Austin, Houston, Dallas,

[00:33:41] Albert Curkey.

[00:33:41] I think the other way is we don't know anyone who's,

[00:33:43] I don't know people that the French Alps,

[00:33:44] I know people in Australia,

[00:33:45] I know people in Japan,

[00:33:47] I know plenty of people in Canada.

[00:33:49] I've got to meet all these people

[00:33:50] and become friends and friendly with them.

[00:33:56] So this way if I need them for something,

[00:33:58] if I need to get boots on the ground at a client,

[00:34:01] I can totally just do that for somebody.

[00:34:03] And so that has definitely helped.

[00:34:09] So that's part one.

[00:34:10] The other one is some of those friendships

[00:34:14] have allowed me to acquire them.

[00:34:20] I've actually grown my business

[00:34:21] by acquiring three people who have been ace's conference,

[00:34:25] attendees in the past.

[00:34:27] And there's allowed virtual computers

[00:34:28] to become the virtual consulting group.

[00:34:31] And that's how we got our app authorized service provider,

[00:34:33] ship, that's how we launched my Mac mentor,

[00:34:35] our training platform for B2C.

[00:34:37] That's how we ended up in Iowa and Gravity,

[00:34:39] things like that.

[00:34:41] You're sorry, I went and Columbia, Missouri,

[00:34:44] the company's called Gravity.

[00:34:47] And expand beyond that.

[00:34:50] And I've had lots of conversations about other people

[00:34:52] about mergers and acquisitions

[00:34:55] throughout my time having done all of that.

[00:34:58] So it has a lot of me,

[00:35:02] those two really undefined growth mechanisms

[00:35:09] that most MSPs wouldn't have a lot,

[00:35:11] wouldn't be able to access.

[00:35:13] Those are closed doors for a lot of people

[00:35:15] because it does take a lot to start a conference.

[00:35:18] You have to be willing to risk it.

[00:35:21] And I've been known to, I'm the risk it got.

[00:35:23] I wrote a book I'll apologize on your ID

[00:35:25] and I talked about my software stuff

[00:35:27] that I did back in when did the IPI come out?

[00:35:30] 2011, 2012.

[00:35:32] And all of the things I did after that

[00:35:33] and my programs that I failed.

[00:35:35] And like, I've known to fail,

[00:35:37] which made leading to the apostles syndrome.

[00:35:39] So yeah.

[00:35:40] Like I'm also the one to risk it.

[00:35:42] Like between my wife and I, I'm way more,

[00:35:44] like I will not jump out of an airplane.

[00:35:47] I get scared of,

[00:35:49] yeah, I won't even go on my roof.

[00:35:51] Like I won't jump out of an airplane.

[00:35:51] I'm not that risky.

[00:35:54] But if I have some cash, even if I don't,

[00:35:58] you know, I was going to stay with the conference.

[00:36:01] Did you really have enough cash to have a 20,000-dollar room block

[00:36:05] yet to pay for and all the other conference?

[00:36:07] Luckily I had a partner at the time.

[00:36:08] So I got to split it with him.

[00:36:12] Yeah.

[00:36:12] Imagine cash was much tighter than when you started the conference.

[00:36:16] It wasn't until your five.

[00:36:19] Did we actually even make any money on the conference?

[00:36:21] And then your six was COVID.

[00:36:23] No more.

[00:36:23] Not change things.

[00:36:24] But we actually figured out how to do,

[00:36:26] we did real well with the virtual years.

[00:36:29] And then in the year 2024,

[00:36:31] we were back in person in Salt Lake City, which was great.

[00:36:34] We actually had team members from Apple in attendance this year,

[00:36:38] which meant a lot to me to say like,

[00:36:42] I've, you might have had it.

[00:36:43] It was like I've made it kind of level.

[00:36:47] Even though it's not, it has,

[00:36:49] like it's just because there's new people

[00:36:51] that are new leadership that want to get involved things

[00:36:52] or that whatever, whatever they're raising,

[00:36:54] I don't care.

[00:36:54] But to me, it's like, yeah.

[00:36:55] I put in the time, and I've done it.

[00:36:58] Sorry, this is our 10th year.

[00:36:59] This is our 10th year.

[00:37:00] So we made our, yeah, we're our decade.

[00:37:02] We actually have, like, we even had 10 timers.

[00:37:04] We people who've come all years for 10 years.

[00:37:07] We bought one of our, one of our sponsors

[00:37:09] is our M.D.M.R.M of choice.

[00:37:11] I don't know if I can, I'm not gonna name brands here.

[00:37:14] But we made these really awesome Eddie Bauer fleeces

[00:37:17] with their logo on one side and Aces logo on the other.

[00:37:20] But we gave the four 10 timers,

[00:37:22] like a special 10 timer patch on it.

[00:37:26] And they just loved it.

[00:37:28] Now the CEO of that M.D.M software was there

[00:37:30] and it was mad that our, our logo would stuff

[00:37:35] for them is better than his own logo would stuff.

[00:37:37] Yeah, like, they gave us water bottles

[00:37:40] and I gave way these really awesome fleeces

[00:37:43] with this stuff on it.

[00:37:44] That's funny.

[00:37:44] But the 10 timers, like to see someone up there,

[00:37:48] like one of the guys who goes

[00:37:49] is a 10 timers, like I Steve Sorbo out of,

[00:37:53] watching him stay.

[00:37:55] He's not an MSP, he's an IT guy who does residential.

[00:38:00] But he's been there every year

[00:38:01] I've watched his company grow.

[00:38:02] I've watched his brand grow.

[00:38:03] I watch everything he's doing

[00:38:05] since the day he started with Aces.

[00:38:07] If I look at his intake form from Aces 1 to Aces 10,

[00:38:11] like that is a significant change.

[00:38:13] That is damn amazing.

[00:38:18] Yeah, that's what it's about.

[00:38:20] So what is the drive I love it?

[00:38:23] Right, and I think the analogy you gave earlier

[00:38:25] is I think a lot like people must understand

[00:38:29] people that start companies entrepreneurs

[00:38:31] because they think that we are just better all.

[00:38:36] I think that the ability to take risks

[00:38:38] is often confused with the ability

[00:38:41] to just jump out of a plane.

[00:38:42] Like crazy levels of risk are far different.

[00:38:45] And so they're usually a little more carefully placed risk,

[00:38:50] but maybe you're not comfortable with them.

[00:38:52] But I'm really curious

[00:38:52] because one of the many things different than you

[00:38:55] is starting a conference, writing a book,

[00:39:00] acquiring companies, writing software.

[00:39:05] Because I think this ties to it,

[00:39:07] investors and earn,

[00:39:08] but I'm just curious,

[00:39:09] I want to gear thoughts, why?

[00:39:11] Great to many things, I love it.

[00:39:12] But you have to have the confidence or the ability to fail.

[00:39:18] I get called out a lot for that,

[00:39:19] because I do,

[00:39:21] I have a lot of people who are like stop starting new things.

[00:39:23] Like I'm tutorials who are starting new things,

[00:39:24] I'm like launching it and then just not giving a crap anymore.

[00:39:30] And I get to told,

[00:39:34] I do get told a lot that like,

[00:39:36] why stop sending time and effort over there

[00:39:38] and you should put time and effort and focus,

[00:39:40] pumpkin planet, focus your energy on the one thing that's worth it.

[00:39:43] But the one thing that's working is kind of an autopilot

[00:39:46] to degree, right?

[00:39:48] My MSP,

[00:39:50] would you really well?

[00:39:51] Comedy has really well been around a long time.

[00:39:53] I got clients all over the United States.

[00:39:56] I get involved because I'm a micro managing piece of shit.

[00:40:00] I love that, right?

[00:40:02] It's just the truth behind it.

[00:40:05] Last week our tier one tech was on vacation.

[00:40:07] I jumped in and I took every ticket.

[00:40:09] The rest of my team could continue doing

[00:40:11] the other things that I need them to do.

[00:40:14] This week,

[00:40:14] I mean it's only Tuesday but like I haven't taken it.

[00:40:16] I took one ticket in two days.

[00:40:22] So I don't really need to put a lot into,

[00:40:24] yes, don't give them.

[00:40:25] I would love to give more clients.

[00:40:26] Yes, I would love to do more marketing.

[00:40:28] Yes, I would love to do really using.

[00:40:30] But I also don't really create,

[00:40:31] I need a creative outlet and I can't draw off.

[00:40:36] So I find other ways to do it.

[00:40:37] And my creative outlet is very much tied

[00:40:39] to like my business sense.

[00:40:42] I also know who I am.

[00:40:45] I'm like a Jewish kid from Long Island.

[00:40:47] Like, I know what I'm about.

[00:40:49] You don't need to say it.

[00:40:50] We know what the stereotype is.

[00:40:54] I'm aware, I'm self-aware.

[00:40:57] But I also really like the idea of getting my name out there.

[00:41:03] Like, I was really big into Gary Vaynerchuk

[00:41:07] when he first got on the scene.

[00:41:08] Right?

[00:41:09] I was like, I could be like this guy.

[00:41:10] This guy's, who's this dude?

[00:41:12] Right?

[00:41:13] And I've gone through my phases of like Gary Vaynerchuk

[00:41:16] and James Alta, Churram, my callowitz and Alex Ramazzi.

[00:41:20] And there goes my roof.

[00:41:23] Whatever.

[00:41:24] Go with that problem, later.

[00:41:27] Going through all of these things,

[00:41:33] it hasn't defied me to find me.

[00:41:35] But like, I wanted to get there.

[00:41:37] I want to be a $10 million MSP.

[00:41:41] I don't want to quit my $10 million MSP.

[00:41:43] And then be like, I quit my, I got rid of my $10 million

[00:41:45] MSP and I'm gonna tell you how to do it.

[00:41:46] Like, I'm not doing that.

[00:41:48] We know who those people are.

[00:41:50] But I like the idea that people are asking me for things

[00:41:56] because they do find them.

[00:41:57] Here's a case in point where a halo onboarding partner.

[00:42:02] Hey, halo the PSI.

[00:42:03] Where the only Apple based company that does it

[00:42:07] were one of seven onboarding partners.

[00:42:09] We're one of three resellers.

[00:42:12] And when so many emails us,

[00:42:14] and says like, hey, I would like to find out more about halo

[00:42:16] and I write back, they go, are you just in from the all things

[00:42:20] MSP podcast?

[00:42:22] Yeah.

[00:42:22] Yeah, yeah, I am.

[00:42:23] That's so cool.

[00:42:24] That's so funny.

[00:42:25] And that's happened to me.

[00:42:26] Like I've had that conversation with people multiple times.

[00:42:29] Like I love that.

[00:42:31] So speaking of that is somebody with a podcast.

[00:42:34] Why?

[00:42:35] Why all things MSP why?

[00:42:37] Oh, so truth be told.

[00:42:40] It's not even mine.

[00:42:40] Eric Anthony.

[00:42:41] It's his group.

[00:42:43] I have the incredible gratitude with his group.

[00:42:44] He actually came to me and asked me

[00:42:46] to be the host of the podcast.

[00:42:48] So I do the show with him.

[00:42:50] It's I'm your host, Justin Askar.

[00:42:52] Well, with me is my podcast producing

[00:42:53] extraordinary Mr. Eric Anthony.

[00:42:55] So I say, never done.

[00:42:57] I love doing that because I like having a platform.

[00:43:02] I like getting the feedback from it.

[00:43:03] Again, I really what this comes down to is I'm a narcissist.

[00:43:05] That's not.

[00:43:08] No, I like this in like not that part but I mean, the point that's interesting to me

[00:43:17] is most people stay in one lane.

[00:43:21] And I'm not saying you should have diffuse focus and go in 10 areas.

[00:43:25] But it is interesting that you had the courage or lapse of judgment or whichever you want

[00:43:31] to see it, to start a conference.

[00:43:33] To be the host of a podcast to write a book.

[00:43:37] There's something there and I think what's missing from this part of the conversation

[00:43:41] is a secret that's been held very closely to me, which is a lot of people see that stuff

[00:43:47] and think they're all different.

[00:43:49] They're not.

[00:43:51] Why?

[00:43:51] I read a book by Chris Hardwick.

[00:43:53] I know he's been canceled but back what he was and he had a book about

[00:43:56] gamifying your life or something like that.

[00:43:58] And he talked about something that really stuck with me, which is the things that he did

[00:44:03] were all related.

[00:44:05] And I took that modality and figured it out.

[00:44:08] And so if you really think about the things that I do, virtual computers, gravity, my

[00:44:13] Mac mentor, a conference for Apple consultants, my book, my software now is for Apple

[00:44:18] consultants.

[00:44:19] My app was for the iPad, which is an Apple product.

[00:44:24] My T-shirts are for consultants, IT people.

[00:44:28] My podcasts is for MSPs and IT people.

[00:44:32] If you follow this pathway and you look at it less of random things all over the

[00:44:37] place and more of a hub and spoke wheel, it all makes sense because writing the middle

[00:44:43] what used to be before I started doing the podcast, right, TMSP.

[00:44:48] Writing the middle was Apple computers.

[00:44:52] I, again, I got an apple when I was five years old.

[00:44:56] Like Steve Jobs was an idol.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Right.

[00:45:00] I put him on a pedestal.

[00:45:01] Much like a lot of Apple consultants still do.

[00:45:04] And so everything stems from that because virtual computers is IT for Apple for clients

[00:45:10] who have Apple products.

[00:45:11] Ases is business teachings for MSPs primarily who are Apple consultants.

[00:45:19] My business coaching is for IT people and the people who know me most are Apple

[00:45:23] consultants.

[00:45:24] I go speak at Mac admins.

[00:45:26] I do my app, fresh books, time and tracker, which was built specifically to

[00:45:31] can extend us their fresh books because I knew a lot of Apple consultants were using

[00:45:35] send desk.

[00:45:35] I know a lot of Apple consultants now were doing Halo so I became a Halo onboarding partner.

[00:45:39] I know that they don't do under five and I know a lot of my Apple consultants are less

[00:45:42] at five people.

[00:45:43] So I became a Halo reseller.

[00:45:45] If you list it out on the sidebar, it doesn't make any sense.

[00:45:49] But if you tie it all together and you look at it from the center point here is

[00:45:52] Apple and here's all the things I can do with Apple without actually being Apple

[00:45:57] or being involved directly with Apple because in reality none of my stuff is

[00:46:02] actually related to Apple directly.

[00:46:04] Yeah.

[00:46:04] I don't work for Apple.

[00:46:05] I can't speak for them.

[00:46:06] I'm not part of it.

[00:46:07] But like that's what it's about.

[00:46:10] And so when you look at it that way, it's just me inflating the wheel.

[00:46:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:15] I love that.

[00:46:16] Yeah, because you can see pretty random between podcasts and t-shirts and

[00:46:21] IT businesses.

[00:46:23] But if it's all centered around MSPs and Apple consultants and IT providers

[00:46:30] and something related to Apple, then it starts to make a lot more sense.

[00:46:35] For folks that are listening or watching, if they've made it this far, you just

[00:46:40] think of how it is.

[00:46:43] What's to take on?

[00:46:45] Because I think there's something to get air comfort zone.

[00:46:51] You know, I think there's something here like what's your take on this?

[00:46:53] Because you're being willing to get out and create all these different things and

[00:46:57] I can definitely relate to not drawing.

[00:46:59] Still think I'm creative.

[00:47:00] Like I don't know why they taught us if you can't draw you're not creative.

[00:47:02] So I think I'm creative.

[00:47:03] Yeah, I hate writing.

[00:47:05] Yeah, it's because we're close in age.

[00:47:07] And I think that was like the lessons they taught in the 80s.

[00:47:10] Yeah, if you can't draw you're not creative.

[00:47:12] So you're creative.

[00:47:12] If you're listening to this, now you know you're creative.

[00:47:16] So you've created these things.

[00:47:19] So what's a lesson from that?

[00:47:21] What sort of advice would you give others?

[00:47:22] Because I know there's a lot of folks that just like, I'm going to stay in my light.

[00:47:25] And I'm going to just keep growing my MSP.

[00:47:29] That's OK.

[00:47:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:47:30] You don't have to do anything else.

[00:47:32] If you want to stay in the MSP lane and grow your MSP,

[00:47:36] and you're OK with what I call a lifestyle business,

[00:47:42] that's fine.

[00:47:43] If you want to, if you're an MSP and you're listening and you've made it this far

[00:47:46] and you're ready to figure out what that next step is

[00:47:48] and you're not sure.

[00:47:49] Don't take it.

[00:47:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:47:50] You don't have to.

[00:47:51] Definitely don't start a conference.

[00:47:53] Those are horrible.

[00:47:54] Remember how I started in the beginning show when I was like,

[00:47:56] I used to be cute.

[00:47:57] I used to have hair.

[00:47:58] Conferences did it.

[00:48:00] Like, don't do that.

[00:48:01] If you're hungry, if you're willing to take a risk,

[00:48:10] if you're willing to take money and put it on your driveway

[00:48:12] and light it on fire,

[00:48:16] and you want to dabble in something else, dabble in something else.

[00:48:21] My t-shirt business is me being created.

[00:48:23] I needed a creative outlet during COVID.

[00:48:28] My hardware business was me putsing around on Alibaba.

[00:48:32] I just haven't a good time.

[00:48:36] My conference was backed by the fact that like

[00:48:38] I wanted to learn and grow and I didn't have that.

[00:48:41] That wasn't an available opportunity in the Apple industry.

[00:48:44] There's so many PC based MSP conferences.

[00:48:46] There's no reason to fact.

[00:48:47] In fact, actually if you do run a conference in your listening

[00:48:50] this please just shut yours down because there's two minutes too many.

[00:48:53] I talked to MSP other days like I got it between 12 and 14 a year

[00:48:57] and I was like, what else do you do if it sounds good

[00:49:00] to the events?

[00:49:02] I think I do that and I wake up.

[00:49:03] You know, right?

[00:49:06] But yeah, if you want to do something,

[00:49:10] do it.

[00:49:11] If you don't want to do something that's also okay.

[00:49:14] Yeah.

[00:49:14] There's nothing.

[00:49:16] There's not I have plenty of friends who just want to like make enough

[00:49:23] to have a nice house and food and not have to worry about things.

[00:49:31] I'm built different.

[00:49:33] That's my mentality.

[00:49:35] I want more.

[00:49:36] I'm always hungry.

[00:49:38] Which explains why I'm now fat.

[00:49:42] I know there's something going there.

[00:49:49] I haven't yet personally, I haven't made it to the level that I want to make

[00:49:53] it to which is why I keep going.

[00:49:55] But there are planning people who have made it to the level that they are comfortable with.

[00:49:58] Fine, be there.

[00:50:00] You don't have to be me.

[00:50:01] You don't have to start a podcast like do you mean?

[00:50:04] Right.

[00:50:05] You just have to do whatever it is that makes you happy.

[00:50:10] Right, so let me turn around on you.

[00:50:13] Why do you do the podcast?

[00:50:15] Yeah, there's the normal I have kind of two normal answers

[00:50:19] and then I think I've just realized a third of what is

[00:50:22] started with that one because I wanted to.

[00:50:25] It's really one of those.

[00:50:28] And what it stems out of is

[00:50:31] it's kind of two things.

[00:50:33] My best clients will call me and say not text stuff.

[00:50:36] Certainly not backup.

[00:50:39] Sometimes a joke that I do love helping people

[00:50:42] including back up in New York, but sometimes it's like,

[00:50:44] gosh, I don't know, sure, I want to talk about that.

[00:50:45] Like the talk about some other challenges you have.

[00:50:48] So they would call and say,

[00:50:51] I don't know how to sell.

[00:50:53] So I suck at marketing.

[00:50:55] Having challenged with this, how do I do you do?

[00:50:57] Nutriors are really big issue.

[00:50:58] I'm having trouble hiring all sorts of other things like that.

[00:51:04] And then if you ask more questions, it's not just that.

[00:51:08] I'm scared to share what I really think.

[00:51:10] You know, core values, there's a lot of things

[00:51:12] that culture is a higher level and say if you dig down

[00:51:15] a little deeper, a lot of the things go lower level.

[00:51:19] And so part of this for me is I get to share that with a world.

[00:51:23] Instead of just the conversation you and I had before this was

[00:51:26] wonderful.

[00:51:28] But that didn't get shared with the world.

[00:51:30] Now, the things we're talking about can get shared.

[00:51:32] And it's not just I can ask just in this and he'll know.

[00:51:35] Now others can know you learn your story and learn.

[00:51:39] You know, I could probably reach out to just.

[00:51:41] And I can remember this guy.

[00:51:42] I remember that he was open about being an impostor.

[00:51:46] And I feel like, that's a real person.

[00:51:49] I can reach out to him.

[00:51:51] And then lastly, it's just and it's a lot of work.

[00:51:58] It takes a long time to don't do it for most people.

[00:52:01] But I'm so curious.

[00:52:04] I love to learn.

[00:52:05] And that've yet to do one of these where I didn't learn.

[00:52:08] You know, about a little bit more about myself.

[00:52:11] A little bit more about impostors and dream.

[00:52:13] A little bit more about something like that.

[00:52:15] So it's almost never what I thought I would learn.

[00:52:17] But I'm learning something out of everyone.

[00:52:18] And it gives me the not only permission, but the the requirement to show up.

[00:52:25] And ask good questions.

[00:52:27] And whether you're the smallest MSP, I've interviewed the fastest growing in this P.

[00:52:32] I'm interviewing some of the the fastest growing there are or I've, you know, interviewed.

[00:52:39] The management consultant that only works for the top.

[00:52:41] Fortune 10, you know, or bestselling authors.

[00:52:45] And what's amazing about that is I get to show up.

[00:52:48] And about a year ago, it wasn't doing this.

[00:52:50] But now I'm showing up and putting myself in there and being vulnerable and saying instead of just like,

[00:52:57] well, what if you were to have a problem like how like how would you do like,

[00:53:01] hiring?

[00:53:02] Yes, that's not easy.

[00:53:04] You know, I'm not beering that.

[00:53:05] You know, I'm showing up like, yeah, I screwed that up the first 16 times two.

[00:53:10] So now how do I fix this?

[00:53:12] And so I get to lean in and be vulnerable.

[00:53:15] My hope is if you're listening that, you know, you can tell this is me being real

[00:53:19] and asking questions that help me that I hope will help you.

[00:53:23] And then I get, you know, it's firstly for you they're listening and secondly for me,

[00:53:27] selfishly like I get to show up and go,

[00:53:30] this is going to be fun.

[00:53:31] What we're doing right now and I get to learn a lot more about you new.

[00:53:35] And, and then, you know, there's like this social contract.

[00:53:40] Hey, Justin, can I have like an hour of your time?

[00:53:42] Just ask you random questions?

[00:53:44] No, what do you weird?

[00:53:45] Hey, I talked to you on the FIcast.

[00:53:47] Yeah, here's an hour of my time.

[00:53:50] So it's just funny.

[00:53:52] Like gives permission to do that.

[00:53:55] So I appreciate you turning the table.

[00:53:58] No, and that's, I mean, that's what it's about because like you realize that it's like part of

[00:54:04] when you were talking about the fact that like you come and you learn,

[00:54:07] I was thinking about that again, kind of similar like the way I did aces.

[00:54:11] I was going in because I wanted to learn.

[00:54:13] I want to, I do want everyone to know how this happened.

[00:54:21] I do want to share this story with everybody.

[00:54:23] Yeah, you and I connected.

[00:54:24] Please, because it happened, I was away.

[00:54:31] Where was I July 12th?

[00:54:33] That was the original email I got from our for mutual friend here.

[00:54:39] July 12th.

[00:54:40] Oh, I was at MacAdmin's.

[00:54:42] Yes, right.

[00:54:42] I was at MacAdmin's and I'm sitting there and I got an email from our mutual friend,

[00:54:47] Mr. Paul Green of the Paul Green, Mark and me, I must be Paul.

[00:54:49] Yeah.

[00:54:51] With only Justin S.Garck and saved it.

[00:54:54] All cathodal letters, right?

[00:54:56] All cathodal letters, which is very much not like Paul who's, if you don't know Paul,

[00:55:00] he's a very posh British person like this.

[00:55:03] It connected us.

[00:55:07] And the funny thing is how Paul knows me well enough to know, to introduce me to you.

[00:55:12] And this is what we talk about opportunities and doing things.

[00:55:16] I've been on Paul show a couple times now, I think I'm only, I think I'm the only three

[00:55:20] pea guests.

[00:55:21] For the longest time, I was his number one episode or his under that was it was,

[00:55:25] I was on it with two of my friends, well, on Ellen, in return field.

[00:55:29] But the reason Paul even knows me is, you couple years back, I remember it was late,

[00:55:38] I was picking up my son from school and I had his podcast on.

[00:55:42] Is this early days, Paul?

[00:55:45] And he had, I can't remember who it was and I apologize to whoever was being somebody honest,

[00:55:49] this woman who sang with cybersecurity.

[00:55:51] And she said, you wouldn't let a bear steal your server.

[00:55:57] Which I thought was the most insane sentence I had heard.

[00:56:00] And why is it something like that?

[00:56:01] It's awesome.

[00:56:03] And I had already started this t-shirt thing, this t-shirt store.

[00:56:07] Because I started with this is, I was really trying to make funny inspirational posts here.

[00:56:12] So I made one called, this is my work from home inspiration composer that's literally like what it's

[00:56:15] as I don't think.

[00:56:17] And so I made it, I came home in my wife who's way more visual than I am.

[00:56:23] She was a graphic designer and actually his director of branch strategy for Fortune 500.

[00:56:27] And I said, hey, I need a t-shirt, I need your help because I can't make this work,

[00:56:31] I try it, I can't do it.

[00:56:32] And she's like, what do you want?

[00:56:33] I was like a bear stealing the server and she just liked me.

[00:56:35] Like I liked 17 notes.

[00:56:37] So I designed, she helped me design this t-shirt.

[00:56:40] We thought it up on the store.

[00:56:42] And I don't send them a shirt because he's in England.

[00:56:43] But I send them the link to the shirt.

[00:56:46] And I go, I just want to say I'm a big fan of your show.

[00:56:50] I've learned a lot in the last couple of weeks.

[00:56:53] I used to listen to it all the time and I went on walks.

[00:56:55] He always had something good, you know, I still does.

[00:56:58] But at the time I was like really, really into it.

[00:57:00] I was like, I just wanted to have a big fan.

[00:57:02] And this thing that was said like really like,

[00:57:05] it struck a chord, I thought it was ridiculous.

[00:57:06] So here's a t-shirt I made in your honor.

[00:57:09] And because of that, I got on his show.

[00:57:12] And we've been friends since he's actually spoken at ACEs.

[00:57:14] When we were virtual, I tried to get him to come to Salt Lake City.

[00:57:17] Paul, if you're listening, you're coming next to go to pieces.

[00:57:19] In the United States, your daughter be damned.

[00:57:25] But it's just like, you never know.

[00:57:28] And then going back to like me wanting to take those risks.

[00:57:32] Like, it was risky for me to start a t-shirt story.

[00:57:37] It was risky for me to bother my wife and the middle of the work day

[00:57:39] to make a stupid ass t-shirt.

[00:57:41] It was risky for me to shoot an email to a guy who's never

[00:57:44] heard of me before.

[00:57:45] And now look what's happened.

[00:57:47] Like, those steps have led me to hear.

[00:57:55] Whether that's good or bad, it doesn't matter.

[00:57:58] Right?

[00:57:59] That's irrelevant.

[00:58:00] What is relevant is Paul and I are friends.

[00:58:04] Paul knows he can trust me.

[00:58:05] Paul sends the information to you because you're looking for stuff.

[00:58:10] I've made a lot of great connections through Paul, right?

[00:58:13] Mark Kotman from Wingman, another great connection I made through Paul.

[00:58:16] People like that.

[00:58:17] Like, I would have never made that all because I made a stupid t-shirt of a bear,

[00:58:21] it's the end of the server.

[00:58:22] I love that.

[00:58:24] You never know.

[00:58:26] And so, if that's what does it for you?

[00:58:32] And you want to like keep feeding into that.

[00:58:37] Because for you, you don't know who I was.

[00:58:39] That's right.

[00:58:39] You got this email, you asked Paul for some people.

[00:58:41] Paul sent you this link.

[00:58:43] You know, it's on my name.

[00:58:44] You know, I talked last week and I did just a jump in.

[00:58:47] I didn't ask for just people.

[00:58:48] I said, who's the most interesting, innovative,

[00:58:51] like, what?

[00:58:51] Who's the most unique different, basically?

[00:58:53] And so, even to many people, he sent me that one email.

[00:58:57] That was it.

[00:58:58] Oh, really?

[00:58:59] That's it.

[00:59:01] So, you know, so then I had to have imposter syndrome because with all caps, you know,

[00:59:04] and there's only one.

[00:59:06] So, yeah, Paul, if you'd be ever watched this, that's all.

[00:59:12] Yeah, no, no, you were it.

[00:59:14] You were the recommendation.

[00:59:16] The first one and the last one.

[00:59:20] That's it.

[00:59:20] That's been the podcast.

[00:59:22] Thanks so much for listening.

[00:59:22] I'll never be another one ever again.

[00:59:24] I love that.

[00:59:26] I want to change it up and hit you with a few questions though.

[00:59:30] Oh, let's go.

[00:59:32] What's a common myth about writing in a MSP?

[00:59:36] Do you like this either?

[00:59:38] Bunt.

[00:59:39] That it's easy.

[00:59:42] That a comment about running an MSP.

[00:59:48] You know what I think is still a myth.

[00:59:50] And I fight this on my own show with Eric Allett's time is the

[00:59:57] you only have to take the clients you want to work with.

[01:00:00] Miff.

[01:00:02] I think that's BS.

[01:00:04] So, I'm not going to say it's 100% BS

[01:00:07] and I understand the pumpkin planning and I've read pumpkin plan for MSPs from

[01:00:13] Dave and Ron wrote it.

[01:00:15] David and Sean.

[01:00:16] And they're great.

[01:00:17] I love those guys.

[01:00:18] They're great.

[01:00:18] They're great.

[01:00:19] They've been on my show.

[01:00:21] They're great guys.

[01:00:23] The, and I had a conversation with another, another happens on this.

[01:00:27] Like I have clients that are straight up a pain in the ass.

[01:00:32] Yep.

[01:00:34] And so many MSPs would get rid of them.

[01:00:36] But I don't.

[01:00:40] I should.

[01:00:41] My staff wants me to.

[01:00:44] But I don't.

[01:00:46] Okay.

[01:00:46] Because why they're paying their bill.

[01:00:49] I don't care that they're paying in the ass.

[01:00:50] Are they affecting me personally?

[01:00:51] Maybe my wife would say they do a little bit.

[01:00:53] Don't care more on.

[01:00:54] They're nice where I go upstairs from my office.

[01:00:56] I go, oh, I'm trying to find my friend for you.

[01:00:58] I'm trying to find my room.

[01:01:00] But the next day it's fine.

[01:01:02] Yeah.

[01:01:03] They don't bother me that next day.

[01:01:04] I go about my life.

[01:01:08] And there's, I have two clients, two or three clients.

[01:01:11] We're like in the very beginning.

[01:01:11] They were so annoying.

[01:01:12] I might say I was get rid of them.

[01:01:13] Give rid of them.

[01:01:14] Give rid of them.

[01:01:14] And now it's, you know, we're two three years in relationships.

[01:01:17] And they're fine.

[01:01:18] It just took a while for us to learn about one another.

[01:01:21] But I'll, so many MSPs would have just dropped them.

[01:01:24] Only work with the clients you want to work with.

[01:01:27] No, man.

[01:01:28] Work with everyone who's going to pay you.

[01:01:29] That's the myth.

[01:01:31] Are they paying you?

[01:01:32] Yeah.

[01:01:32] Are they complaining about it?

[01:01:33] Shut up.

[01:01:35] Just work.

[01:01:36] Do check clear.

[01:01:37] Right.

[01:01:38] Because we make a list.

[01:01:39] If you get rid of them.

[01:01:40] Because the other myth is there's enough business to go around.

[01:01:47] I cannot prove or deny that.

[01:01:51] Yep.

[01:01:52] Now, it's definitely different in my market as an apple consultant.

[01:01:55] In the PC market, that might be true.

[01:01:58] I had a, I met with somebody at an event who was an XMSP owner,

[01:02:05] multi-hundred million dollar MSP owner.

[01:02:07] Now he sells a book because that's a man off.

[01:02:09] That's what they all do.

[01:02:12] Any owner of a healthcare.

[01:02:13] Only did possible.

[01:02:16] I assure.

[01:02:17] I get it.

[01:02:18] There's plenty of hospitals in the United States.

[01:02:20] Not a single one of them is using Mac yet.

[01:02:22] Yeah.

[01:02:22] None of them are using iPads.

[01:02:23] So I can't use that as business.

[01:02:26] What got me was he said, if your an MSP and you make less than,

[01:02:30] I think it was like five million dollars a year,

[01:02:32] you're still considered a startup.

[01:02:33] And I just went over to him and I was like, FU.

[01:02:36] That's so not true.

[01:02:37] So many of my friends, so many of the apples,

[01:02:40] as long as I know, like, I was like 80% of the applicants

[01:02:43] all in make less than $500,000 a year in their business.

[01:02:46] Top line revenue.

[01:02:49] Who are you to say that they're startups?

[01:02:50] These people have been in business longer than you

[01:02:52] been alive, homey.

[01:02:53] She's like, you got lucky and got it.

[01:02:55] And don't you knew someone to healthcare?

[01:02:57] And you know, it would be got that.

[01:02:59] So the, there's enough business for everyone one.

[01:03:02] I can't, I like people say it, but I have no proof of that either way.

[01:03:07] So I would say those are the two that if I was put on a spot to answer one,

[01:03:12] I would say those are the two that we go with.

[01:03:13] I don't know if they're true and you know what?

[01:03:14] I look forward to your tweets and emails.

[01:03:19] There was one thing you could do over.

[01:03:22] Well, what would that be?

[01:03:22] There's one thing I can do over.

[01:03:24] Oh my god, I would totally not do any of this.

[01:03:27] I would own a food truck.

[01:03:32] If there's something I can do over, oh shit.

[01:03:37] This is a cheesy answer, but the truth of matter is I can't say anything because

[01:03:41] it wouldn't have led me to where I am today.

[01:03:44] I wouldn't have been able to do things I wouldn't have been able to do if I had to do anything

[01:03:47] over.

[01:03:48] Maybe in a daily, you know, quick way there might be a doover like I just set up an office

[01:03:54] 365 account for somebody.

[01:03:55] I sent them the username and password they sent it and they couldn't log in

[01:03:58] because I sent them the actual username that the dot on Microsoft.

[01:04:01] I wish I could do over my original email to them so I don't seem like an idiot.

[01:04:06] Because I was supposed to know what I'm doing, right?

[01:04:09] But like a holistic even, even truth be told.

[01:04:14] And I write about this in the book and my books from 2011,

[01:04:16] so like if you want to buy it, it's on Amazon but don't.

[01:04:20] Because I don't know, it says about our me.

[01:04:22] But I write about the fact that I wrote this piece of software.

[01:04:24] I tend to chase a lot.

[01:04:27] There was a great app called Now Up to Now Contact.

[01:04:31] It was now contact.

[01:04:32] It was a global address book for a business.

[01:04:35] So there was basically a server, piece of software, and everyone had the app.

[01:04:38] There's before Gmail and an Office 365 were like things.

[01:04:41] And then come in and add a business and I was like I'm going to replace it.

[01:04:43] I'm going to build a replacement and iPhone and just come out.

[01:04:45] I'm going to find a way to get your contacts under iPhone.

[01:04:47] It took me a year and I blew probably $80,000 in development between two separate

[01:04:51] developers and all this stuff over the course of a year.

[01:04:55] What I do that over, sure, I would love to have $80,000 in my bank account.

[01:05:00] Right.

[01:05:01] But could I tell that story anymore?

[01:05:04] No, and does that story mean more?

[01:05:07] Yeah, it's all about watching what I'm doing.

[01:05:11] Don't get into feature creep because there's been times where I've written,

[01:05:14] I've gotten people, first off, I don't code.

[01:05:16] I outsource everything.

[01:05:18] So I've been working on a project for something else and I will feature

[01:05:22] creep it and then my wife will be like your black booking.

[01:05:25] That was what we named the software.

[01:05:26] She's like your black booking.

[01:05:28] Kind of like, oh, shit, you're right.

[01:05:30] You know?

[01:05:30] So what I do that over, sure, I want the money but at the same time,

[01:05:37] there's no price on experience which is, I know it's super cheesy to say.

[01:05:41] I apologize, that came out of my mouth.

[01:05:44] But that's it.

[01:05:45] I mean, I'll go farther back like, I am a failed stand-up comedian.

[01:05:53] Anything?

[01:05:54] I took a comedy class, a comedy show, the famous comic ship live on the

[01:05:57] Upper East Side and then I went and I did the thing and DF was our coach and he loved

[01:06:01] me and he brought me in.

[01:06:02] I did actual shows and I sucked hard.

[01:06:05] Hard.

[01:06:06] Do I bomb so bad that I walked off stage?

[01:06:09] Oh, bad.

[01:06:11] But I wouldn't regret that.

[01:06:13] I would talk about imposter syndrome.

[01:06:15] Like, yeah, like that's that seemed rough.

[01:06:19] I wouldn't, I still dress like a comedian with this jacket but I'm wearing.

[01:06:23] If you're watching this on YouTube, I apologize for wondering,

[01:06:25] this is not my normal pose.

[01:06:27] You sure I was wearing earlier just maybe look gross.

[01:06:32] I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't read, I wouldn't read on due to it because

[01:06:36] there's so much more than I learned there which is one of the reasons why I'm really

[01:06:40] good at doing a presentation or talking on a podcast or doing hosting a show

[01:06:44] because I learned timing and I learned how to project myself and I learned how to

[01:06:49] stand in front of a microphone.

[01:06:51] You know, so like, I wouldn't do anything over.

[01:06:55] Maybe I regret having kids but I knew love them but like at the same time.

[01:07:01] Oh, man, they're so good.

[01:07:02] You could be both.

[01:07:05] What's your, what's your biggest lesson?

[01:07:08] I don't know all these years in business.

[01:07:10] Don't have kids. Oh no, I'm, my biggest lesson.

[01:07:17] This is personal which is

[01:07:21] be okay with taking risks.

[01:07:23] I know we've been talking about that a lot this episode but it's

[01:07:27] for anyone who's listening, the biggest lesson isn't necessarily like take more risk.

[01:07:30] It's be comfortable with who you are to do those things.

[01:07:35] We talked earlier about all those things that I do and I've said people have come at me

[01:07:40] being like, why do you do all of this stuff? I seem like you're just like, you don't get to tell

[01:07:44] me who why I'm what I should be doing.

[01:07:47] And I'm okay with doing all that stuff and I'm okay with taking a risk

[01:07:51] of maybe letting a ticket sit for 15 more minutes because I'm busy designing

[01:07:55] my truck is ran over your preesthesia as I had a stupid idea.

[01:08:03] I'm okay with that. Right? So being okay with all that helps but it's not for everybody.

[01:08:11] Not for everybody, I think that's a good takeaway.

[01:08:15] What are you looking forward to? What's interesting right now?

[01:08:19] Seeing what's new, like I like the exploration of this business,

[01:08:24] I'm excited to, I'm excited for the possibility of freeing up more time to do more podcasts.

[01:08:31] I'm excited for the possibility for potentially getting my name out there more

[01:08:35] and doing things. I'm excited for getting socked to compliant.

[01:08:41] Like it's, I don't know. I don't know what, I'm not

[01:08:45] everyday something else. And it's a good thing. Right now, on a trip we told right now,

[01:08:49] we're recording this on Tuesday. My son comes from Supercamp and there's all I care about

[01:08:52] is that. And then we go to the Wyon Friday for vacation which is not a vacation. It's a trip.

[01:08:57] In laws are coming and my kids are coming so it's not really making any fun.

[01:09:01] I get to see my friends who live in LA who haven't seen in quite some time.

[01:09:05] And we're going to go to Disney and I get to build a lightsaber with him and like,

[01:09:09] I'm excited for that. I'm excited for the short term, not the long term because the long term,

[01:09:17] there's too much in between now and whenever that could be.

[01:09:23] This add-off long-term goals is just that I kind of live in them now.

[01:09:30] Yeah. Yeah, I think it makes long-sense. It's better than the now.

[01:09:34] It does but the problem with it is like it could be good or bad because I talk about this

[01:09:37] one a lot also. Future Justin hates current Justin. It's a my current Justin hates past Justin.

[01:09:45] Yeah. Right. So something I did like 10 minutes ago, I made that person's office 365.

[01:09:53] Current Justin's like you're an idiot.

[01:09:55] Maybe you're a future Justin. I already know this is going to be mad that when that thing just fell off my roof,

[01:10:03] I didn't go outside because it's probably a giant hole in my roof upstairs but I don't care because I'm here talking to you.

[01:10:08] Sacrifices. I'm sacrificing, right? So like yeah, living in the now is great until it's not.

[01:10:14] But then it is, you know. So it's the facts about you take the good. You take the bad facts about what I'm

[01:10:25] going to be doing. So the rapid fire is just, is there a book that helped you? Is there like a

[01:10:29] not a top book that you say, man? This is really so truth be told I don't read a lot.

[01:10:35] Okay. So if I do read a book, it's got a means something or grab me and I do tend to read more like

[01:10:43] self help or business related books. Like you know, I've read all the Gary Vaynerchuk books. Yeah.

[01:10:52] I'm going to curse so earmuffs. The subtle art of not giving a fuck. Yeah.

[01:10:58] Solid book. Okay. All it's solid book. But my non business answer and it was just because this book

[01:11:07] when my wife Michelle introduced me to it, it was at a weird point my time and I try to read this book

[01:11:14] once a year if I want to read two years. I'm actually like I'm coming up for do is the

[01:11:19] alchemist by all of co-hello or something like that. It's like the number one book. It's like

[01:11:25] it's in the most languages in the world or something like that. And it, it's an interesting story

[01:11:32] because it talks about trials and tribulations of this unknown thing. And it starts where it

[01:11:50] ends. It really has like a profound impact on the way you look at life. Don't get me wrong.

[01:12:00] I mean, I can read Mike McCallow it's all day long. Right? And I can read Mark Coteman and

[01:12:07] whoever. But like there's something about this particular book, the alchemist.

[01:12:13] I don't know what it is but it's like you read it and you're just like,

[01:12:17] you ever watch, you ever watch inception? Yes. You ever watch it when you're drunk on an

[01:12:22] ear. Oh, I can't say that. It's a very different experience. This happened to me.

[01:12:31] I'll note that for next time I'm drunk on an ear. It's the altitude and like having a little bit of

[01:12:36] buzz in you and watching this movie. You're like really best with your head. The reason I bring that

[01:12:40] up is like you read the alchemist and it transcends something. At least for me,

[01:12:48] it transcends something beyond slack, beyond email, beyond whatever. And it was just,

[01:12:58] there's no, it takes place in such a long time ago. It's not like the shepherd walked

[01:13:07] down the path and then he got a Microsoft teams invite. That's not in it. It's like he thought

[01:13:14] it was a sheep but no, it was the ding ding ding of email. Like it's not in there. So like it takes you

[01:13:18] out. And I don't again, I'm not a big reader. Like I think I've never ever written. Yeah,

[01:13:25] I think so. I know a lot of IT folk, they get really into like those fantasy novels and things

[01:13:33] like that. I know a lot of friends who are not going to say, I'm more of a movie person. I really

[01:13:38] like watching movies but there's something about this book that when I read it and maybe it was

[01:13:43] right time, you know, right place, right time, kind of situation that it is stuck with me since

[01:13:48] that it's caused me to want to reread it all the time. But yeah, pick it up. I love that. I definitely

[01:13:56] will. Well, I could talk to y'all day. I probably shouldn't. So tell folks to listen to how to

[01:14:03] find you if that's good, how they should connect with you. What you recommended? Yeah,

[01:14:08] find me virtualconsulting.com is our parent website. You can find all of our companies there,

[01:14:14] all the stuff that we're doing there. Find me on LinkedIn.link.com slash in slash just an S.K.R.

[01:14:19] I'm always well. If you hit me up a LinkedIn, you say, hey, I heard you on Damien's podcast.

[01:14:24] I'll, you know, I'll give him my calendar. We'll do a 30 minute ask me whatever you want.

[01:14:28] Help. Let me help you. I want to, I want to be the person who legit helps people. You don't have

[01:14:37] to pay me. It's going to help you. I love that. I just want to get get something, get something out of

[01:14:43] a conversation with me. If you get nothing out of a conversation with me, I'll send you a free copy.

[01:14:47] Hey. I love that. Well, don't miss the opportunity to take just an up on that offer. I

[01:14:56] appreciate that that that definitely comes from the heart. And thank you for being on MSP mindset

[01:15:03] and thank just an S.K.R. for saving the day. Thank you very much, man. Appreciate it.