The Reality of Running a Successful Business, with Mark Porter (MSP Titan #6)

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes as entrepreneurs see it as whatever we don't ask for help. Everybody's always asking us for help, so you used to be in the guy giving help

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I learned that lesson hard when I needed it in a family way when our son was started experiencing challenges

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It was hard to actually accept like people came out of the woodwork, poured out with help

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I struggled with how to actually sub that who are hand-led, right? It was just weird because feeling helpless was a real weird feeling

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he put up his walls and probably said the railings I probably didn't come with it, but I should have

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, Damien Stevens host of MSP Mindset

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Join me today for this raw and unfiltered conversation with Mark Porter

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Mark has achieved most of the things that we would call success

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: He built a business and that was adding 3 to 5 new clients every single week

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And took it from 14 to 28 million in revenue in 14 months

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Took it from losing 2 million to profiting 3 million dollars per year

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Took it public

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: All the things that I know I've looked at as success

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But he shares the raw unfiltered truth of adversity

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He had to lay off 30% of his team

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: He also shared where even at exit events that we all think of wonderful

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: How some of his team members couldn't let go

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: They wanted to stay with him, he would have rather stayed with him

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to learn from his 25 years in business and being one of the top 100 people you should know

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: According to CRN, don't miss our conversation today

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: 25 years

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: For running, any business is a long friggin' time

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like 19 into this one so I can almost relate

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know it's easy to get the identity wrapped in there too

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So how did you know it was time to exit?

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of a long story but in 2019 I had one of these you probably seen him

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: This kind of new entrepreneur back by a PE fund

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Really smart guy

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a real deal back with real money

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And he seemed like a nice guy so we started talking

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And by November of 2019 I had bought the company back from a public company in 2017

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, grew it really quickly

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It was making a lot of money

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_03]: But most people stay in there

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think we were making probably 3 million a year or something like that

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was myself and two other shareholders who were

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: They were minority shareholders, they were awesome shareholders

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm also not naive enough I told people all the time

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: They were great shareholders

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably because they got their checks

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: They got all their invested capital back and the business was humming

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: They might not have been so awesome if I wasn't executing

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But the facts were what they were

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So we had a relatively easy life

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: It was falling, it was exciting

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But it had still been a long time

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: We were going on a year about that in 19 year mark

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And so

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_03]: These guys, they offered

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: The first offer was enough to make it like interesting

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And doing what I usually do, I said no

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thinking too much about it

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Just to see what he was going to say

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: His reaction told me that that was not the end of the negotiation

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we kind of kept meeting and talking and dancing

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: They made two more offers

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And so as we got into December of 2019

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: The last offer was pretty good

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But there was a couple of things that were nagging at me

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We were just beginning this cyber security thing

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I was really intrigued by it

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: It was actually sort of like reinvigorating

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was kind of like something fresh, something new, something exciting

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And more I think back about the people that were influencing it

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And what we were talking about what we were thinking about

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Versus where we are now

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean it was more on it

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's just so immature

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And so crazy, honestly, so crazy to think we could do it

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And we shouldn't have, honestly

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean we just had no business doing it

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, somehow here we are

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't know what to do

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Doing a major part

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_03]: The cyber security thing

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like looking back on it

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It was crazy

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean I had the wrong people

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything was wrong

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know they're not sure if we figured it out

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So it just, I mean it was like the audacity

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: The audacious goal

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I only we didn't think it was that audacious

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Now and hindsight it just looks crazy, stupid foolish

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's really never thought about it

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: That way it's always has a reflecting back on

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of those conversations

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It would just crazy talk

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But in any case

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to keep that part of the business

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I really was fascinated about it

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was almost nothing

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a little more than an idea

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But we had some great customers

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything we did was really around our great partners

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And so a new we could, if we could get something viable

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_03]: We could sell it

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So we just kept kind of

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Plugging away at that

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I kept trying to figure out how to carve that out

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Or you know and it was getting a little complicated

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I said no again

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Because of that

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Honestly I was just so hyper focused

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: On I needed the rest of the business to fund it

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we were making so much money

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_03]: We could just put the money back into it

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And avoid taxes on it

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was a sort of a win-win

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And it greatly get it off the ground

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And then they came back with like one more offer

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03]: That was really really good

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And a way to

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Where to get it

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_03]: The problem was when I asked for like their game plan

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Um

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: They said well

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You know we'll grow 14% a year

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was still rolling

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I was rolling

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I would have been

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: We are just me and my two other shareholders would have been

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Rolling

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Equity as well as holding a note for about 30% of it

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Well I've just told you we've grow 42%

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: To over 42%

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: 3 years in a row

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're just laying out this 14% growth pattern

[00:07:38] Like

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I won't have you know how you get a service to debt

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we didn't have debt load

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: We bought it with our own money

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And we had debt but it was to ourselves

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was a little different thing

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said to

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Like what kind of

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I know we like each other

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: We've been meeting a lot

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I really do enjoy you

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But like what kind of guy do you think I am

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Going to be as a shareholder

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And a note holder

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're growing the company at 14%

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just told you we've been growing a 40%

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And he said

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said I know I'm going to be a miserable shareholder

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to like put in a boot up your ass all day long

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're not going to get along

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know I'm going to be fine

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: It'll be fine

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I said no again

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I like no this isn't going to work

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that was like a Friday

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And some day night

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I woke up

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said oh my god

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: What I do

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But I said I walk away from here

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was the other thing that was nagging at me

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Was really

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It ended up being sort of

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Twofold one

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't have been able to do enough

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: For some people that I really wanted to do something nice for

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of them was helping me through the process

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And she cried every night

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Because she knew she would be

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Mostly out of a job

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Most like that

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I could have given her like 500,000

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But that didn't seem like enough

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_03]: For the time she'd spent with me

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: She said I'm going to have to get a real job

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult

[00:09:31] Like

[00:09:31] Yeah

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: There's no way

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like I mean this is a real job

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: We employ like

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: 60 people

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But as she met that as a compliment

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: She just met

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: She loved what she did

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And she did more good that

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And she was the only one who knew about it

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And even though she cried every night about it

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Well we were talking

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: She just kept plugging away and helping me

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And getting what I needed to make it happen

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So that was nagging at me

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I just thought like I had this unfinished business

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was really around the side of us

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It was some other stuff

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Now

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome story and everything

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to keep on

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely blowing it out

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Q1 2020

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Best Quarter We Ever Had

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And then

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, April 1st

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: The World Chut Town

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So we went from

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: The best quarter we ever had

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: To the end of March being really weird

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Because this rumblings were all going on

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: About all this crazy stuff

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: To being totally couldn't leave our house

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And it went away for the next two weeks

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And having a meeting

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll never forget that meeting

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Looking around

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It was fabulous in the room

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: How many days a cash do we have

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: If nobody pays us a penny of what they always

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Because that's what I thought was going to happen

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I assumed all of our customers

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to sit on their cash

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And some did

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they were having the same meetings

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And then

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_03]: The answer by the way

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: It was 35 days

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's better than most

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It was

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but much better than most

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was assuming zero payment

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Assuming 50% payments

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: We were probably okay

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Out to like

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I think 80 days

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But we didn't even have a line to credit

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Because myself and the two other owners

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: They like if we needed money

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_03]: We put it money or whatever

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But we didn't have a bank line or anything like that

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_03]: We were

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Faced with Armageddon

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And on certainty

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: In that meeting

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: There was

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Talking about what we do

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember that

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_03]: There was some good answers

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: There was a couple

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Completely insane ones

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody remembers that Tom

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That that

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: That individual

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Was at the top of the list

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_03]: When we started making lists

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I told my CEO at the time

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Start making lists

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Of

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: This is bad

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: This is really bad

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And holy shit

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted those three lists

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And he made those

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Made those three lists

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to go to New York for meeting

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And I went to New York

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And this was still

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_03]: This was the end of March

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_03]: As we were kind of preparing for this

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was pretty clear

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: The way things were going

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I got to look

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Already

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Things were kind of weird

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_03]: In New York

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I was down in Manhattan

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Very empty

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I had lunch

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: The next day

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And time square

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And there was like

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: 10 people in time square

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Really

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the end of the world

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean it was so

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Serial

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I told the guys

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It was meaning

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03]: That

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to leave

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like for

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: For my flight

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I left

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_03]: At 430

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: For the Guardian

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Thinking

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I was going to miss

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_03]: My 7 p.m. flight

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Like

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not enough time

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: No way

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get there

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I got the

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_03]: The Guardian

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Twenty Two minutes later

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There's nobody in line

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to walk

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Right through security

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Walked into the

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Emeralds Lange

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And there were more employees

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Than passengers

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Gone on my plane

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was sitting in

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03]: First

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was talking

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_03]: To one of my shareholders

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So it wasn't really paying attention

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_03]: To the boarding process

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: We took off

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Had a couple drinks

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's only in our

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Twenty-minute flight

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Or whatever

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Get home

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_03]: The Chicago

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I get home

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I stand up

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And I grab my bag

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: From my rollerboard

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_03]: From above

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I looked behind me

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And there was nobody on the plane

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Seven people on that flight

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Four of us were in first

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And there was like

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Two people, three people

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Just in the row behind the ball

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Head

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I call my CEO

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_03]: In that time

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_03]: He was

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_03]: He's on Eastern

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Times I was probably 10 o'clock

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: His time

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I called him

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said go to the O shit list

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And start tomorrow

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: He said no, no, you're overreacting

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I said no

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I said we got to do this

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's going to be a

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Flood of people going

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is the most humane thing

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_03]: We can do

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Is get them into unemployment

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And it ended up being in

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: For... So we started making

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Really big cuts

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We caught like 30% of our staff

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And ended up being

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: In some ways

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the best thing we did for those people

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they got in this system

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: A head of other people

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Like my days

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Because days after this

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody was doing the same

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was just crazy

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_03]: We...

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was just such an extreme

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_03]: From

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Coasting

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Almost to

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_03]: How we going to make it

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: There was no PPP or anything

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Even opposed yet

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So fortunately that did

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_03]: That was huge for us

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a big...

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a big win for us

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: We kept a lot of people employed

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Which I think is like the most important thing

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You can do for people

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's giving them a sense of purpose

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So all that said

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean that whole

[00:15:41] Saga

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, fast forward

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_03]: To maybe

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Mid-A, Bro

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And we had a board meeting

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And it ended

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_03]: We all agreed

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That by

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Late August

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: This thing was going to happen

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It's course

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And everything would be back to normal

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Mid-A, so they're like

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so everybody will be over

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_03]: At August

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: September

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Things will start normalizing

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And by fourth quarter

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything would be fine

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: None of us really thought

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Through the election year

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Thing or any other political stuff

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That was going on around it

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Never crossed our minds

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And that called

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we agreed

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Like okay, we're going to be fine

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Until then we've made all the adjustments

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: PPP was coming

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be okay

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03]: The meeting ended

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: With one of the other guys

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Saying

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I only hope

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't get to September

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Look back and say

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_03]: God how naive

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Where we in April

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And that this thing's going to just

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Keep dragging out

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, the way

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It was that way

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It ended in sure

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like September

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Like looking at each other

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Like when is it kind of end

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean this is there's no end in sight

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And then

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: All the sudden the supply chain delays

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We're starting

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you couldn't get a car

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Remember like the cars disappeared

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We dealt in everything we dealt

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And has a proper process or it

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Not just the cheap ones

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all high in ones

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_03]: That whole saga

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: When you laid it out from all that

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And went all the way through the next two and a half

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Three years of COVID

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It just was time

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So for me

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There was also its personal stuff

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_03]: That happened in that time

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_03]: With

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't know what you got

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Till it's gone

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And I had a kid who

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Lost himself

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you want to talk about

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Brushes

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: You take for granted

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: When you just

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Healthy your whole life

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And then all of a sudden

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Your kids not

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's worse than losing your own health

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I think

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But we'll help you

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So all of that over the same period of time

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So for me when

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: When this opportunity came

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And the cyber businesses

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And the place where it really

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Needs the time and attention

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've accomplished a scale

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_03]: We needed to get to

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Or it's time that just hit the gas

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: It just was time

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm still involved with it

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I still get the pleasure of helping

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, it's mostly from

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we'll make sure the guys

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Have bought it

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It hit a home run

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And the people that went with it

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Are set up for success

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And not everybody went with it

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And that sucked

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That really sucked

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I know there will be people

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: That probably

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, hardware real well

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't blame them

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's never easy

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Especially when it's not their fault

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: They're just

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes in these sorts of deals

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a much larger thing

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes in these sorts of deals

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_03]: They really are

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It does come down the numbers

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Boyle people down

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_03]: To a payroll member

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But

[00:19:07] That's

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, today's episode is sponsored by

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Servosity

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I created Servosity

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I was an MSP

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That lost data

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Then I had to go

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And front of my client

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And tell them

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't recover

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: If you've ever been there

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Or worried that you would be there

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Then you may want to take a look at Servosity

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: We do two things

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That nobody else is crazy enough to do

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We test your backups

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Maniacally

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Do that daily

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Weekly, monthly, and quarterly

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: For you

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we manage the backups for you

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can focus on growing your MSP

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of babysitting backups

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're interested in our

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Unlimited storage or a mutable storage

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Or any of things that I'm talking about

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Visit Servosity.com

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Back up a little bit

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of during that

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Converterion

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking before

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You were talking about

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: How people were

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Obsessed and not for themselves

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me more about that

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I've done through our couple of times

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: 2008

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And then

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_03]: In the transition in this

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: SIL

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_03]: That COVID thing

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I got a couple of really incredible

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Really really incredible

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: emails

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_03]: From employees

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of the people

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't even been here that long

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that was a part of that

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Take me off guard

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Mostly and make you realize

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you just do

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're just

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Doing what you do

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And treating people

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Generally right

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm far from

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Trust me

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I do believe

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_03]: When you just

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_03]: If you do things for the right reasons

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It comes back to

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Timefold even if you get screwed

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Somewhere down

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Going

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to come back to you

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not material things

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe things that make you just feel great

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's a lot of stuff out there

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That makes you feel not so great

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So I got a lot of notes

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably the most gracious thing

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyone ever did for me

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And he took it

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: The hardest of he ever

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Seas is probably

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Kill me for telling anybody the story

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_03]: In back to 2008

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: When the world was falling apart

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_03]: My three largest customers

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Go bankrupt in 90 days

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know what we were going to do

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean it was

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Think about it

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean we were

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently 24 hours from ATMs

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Not having money in them

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And all that stuff

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_03]: The system was at liquid

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And when that happened

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And the door towel was our biggest customer

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And they owned a 687,327

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And they went bankrupt

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't know how we were going to deal with it

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And they funded one of my employees

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_03]: They actually paid his base salary

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And he called me that morning

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And said I know that you can't afford me anymore

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not leaving

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So you tell me whatever number

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that you can pay me

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll stay

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know we'll figure it out

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And he had money

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: He had been like two years

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He was a good dude

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: He still is a great dude

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And probably if you see this

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You know I love it

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: He's my member guest partner

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Every year at my club

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: He's an amazing golfer

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Same guy

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Again

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_03]: My member guest was the week

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: After

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I sold that business

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And he went with it

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was one of the hardest conversations

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I had to keep him out of it

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Till the very end

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It was only about four people who knew

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: The whole thing was happening

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And I talked to him on a Friday

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said this and I got to share some things with you

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_03]: This is not going to be an easy conversation

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: We talked through it

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And he didn't say much

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Almost nothing in fact

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And he just said you're alright

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I said yeah fine

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And we hung up

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Then I watched it next week

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He heard most of it

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_03]: New up, new who I was talking to

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And the relationship

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And he said

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: She said

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you take it?

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Because he was fine

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So he didn't

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Bad now

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't see us

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Sort of think

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he doesn't love me anymore

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_03]: She said, well

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I said he

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Was totally unexpected

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So when about the weekend

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_03]: One day morning

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: When they were calling me

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought he was going to talk about the logistics of flying up

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And today for the tournament

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Then he called

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And he said

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I just want to make sure I understood

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: He told me correctly on Friday

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Then he

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Red it back to me

[00:24:28] And

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That is piece of

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't work for you anymore

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It was

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm still doing the same thing

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But for somebody else

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Damn it, that's what I thought

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Sunday night

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_03]: What you said

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I said I laid this hall on Friday

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And he didn't read

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I said

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I said

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I did on Sunday

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So I said I'm a couch and crying

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So my wife is

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_03]: He's here

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just couch and cry

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It just took a little while for it to sink in

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I wanted to be in the night or not

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But I got some other really nice letters

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: One employee

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He was very upset

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: He said

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_03]: He cared for me

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_03]: He had been friends anymore

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And he was a joke

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: You've formed

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I think

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of my other executive team

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll tell you the thing

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That they're always fascinated

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_03]: About is when they talk to other employees

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_03]: They would talk about their relationship

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_03]: The unique relationship

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That they had with me

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And the only thing I could say is I always felt

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_03]: like with each of them, it was unique, right?

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_03]: As long as you're genuine.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think those who know, there's some,

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_03]: they sort of know generally the people know

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_03]: where they stand with me because of me,

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_03]: they're at ease with you or if I'm not,

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: it's usually because I don't like nervous energy very much,

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_03]: but it makes me unguarant a little bit.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But I've had the good fortune of working with so many people.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And there was two people that commented on LinkedIn

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that were just like, never in please,

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_03]: but partners or work that Cisco,

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_03]: work that North tell whatever,

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and commented about how satisfying it must be

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_03]: to have seen it off and to be in it with,

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_03]: it was a pretty good financial success for our shareholders.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But the satisfying in the hardest part

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_03]: all at the same time was we employed so many people

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_03]: over the years but came through at the peak when we had

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the staffing business and everything else we had,

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_03]: close to 400 people.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of whom I never met,

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and that was the weirdest one you get that,

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_03]: when you get that day and you got guys

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and gals out in the field that you never meet

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and you're better responsible for them.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And some of them in dangerous jobs, climate polls

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, dealing with electrical work and stuff like that.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: But I hate it not knowing them all,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but when you think about even just,

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, in a steady state of 60 or 80 people

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and this sort of churn that happens over the years

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and over 25 years I mean,

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish I knew the number but it's gotta be,

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, 600, 700 people that came in one over time.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So you get realized that you have an opportunity

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: to really influence people's lives

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and I wish I thought about that a lot more

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_03]: when I was younger in my 30s,

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_03]: but I was probably more self-absorbed

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and trying to build my kingdom,

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, you're still focused on the business

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: that it's easy to forget how much impact

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_03]: you have when people's lives.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll look at some of these young kids

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that started with us back in the days

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_03]: when all we did was door-tell stuff.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_03]: There was, I mean, we had a group of these young maniacs

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that would just fly around the country

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and they were wild men or you know,

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and the coolest part was I would get the go-out on sites

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_03]: with them sometimes meet them out of jobs sites

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever, just hang out with them

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and, I mean, how they were 1920, 20, 20 years old,

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: couldn't get cars, you know, couldn't rent some cars

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: because it's really, really good.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So that stuff,

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and what's mind-blowing is,

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_03]: now I look at some of these guys

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: or running businesses at places like Cisco

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: or Axis that came with guys.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they've gone on some amazing careers

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's like the thing

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that you had a little partner is kinda cool.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I couldn't agree more if there's some way ahead.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's easy to keep score on revenue

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: or profit or EBITDA but impact.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess that's the point, right?

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: As you don't keep score.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_03]: If you keep in score like people who keep score

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_03]: who could tell you like exactly what that number is

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever, it's usually for themselves.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, and if you're truly keeping score

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: that way, no, I don't know that you can have

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that kind of impact, right?

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Because then you're also trying to figure out

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_03]: what they're doing for you.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I worked for this crazy guy for a while.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And he used to say, if I gotta put the whole lot of y'all

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_03]: in my back and drag y'all, do it.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But if I catch you dragging your damn foot in the sand,

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_03]: all if you go, right?

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's gotta be the mentality, right?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, let's go do this and I'll carry you,

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you carry me.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever's gotta carry it today, do it

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but just don't hold us back, right?

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're keeping score on the personal stuff,

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that you, I know that's one thing

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_03]: my wife and I talk about is we keep score too much.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, in our marriage, right?

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a healthy habit, right?

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_03]: We're always trying to forget what score is

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not the secret to longevity.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been fortunate to be married all this time.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: She's been through this all day and crazy ride.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So, that's a whole chapter in a book onto itself

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_03]: as the only thing more civilian and entrepreneurs

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: being the wife of an entrepreneur.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Being married to me?

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm sure my wife would come in right now.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure this is your own.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not for the fate of art.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I remember the first question when I said

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: we were buying the company.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_03]: She said, what happens if there's not enough money

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_03]: for a check?

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, then we won't get one.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pretty clear.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought of a self-evident.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_03]: She didn't like the answer anymore.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_03]: She didn't like that answer anymore today either.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And it still happens from time to time.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Man, when things are lean and you're asking people

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that you're asking people to cut,

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that was another time.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I got a lot of letters and none of them had.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_03]: When it's a look, we got to tighten our belt

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_03]: through the same work and we got to make some changes.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was fortunate that my CEO,

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_03]: oh, my CEO, myself went to zero pay for various links

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_03]: at time for two of us.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_03]: We went to an half months before Christmas.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Not really like the best time of year to tell you

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_03]: why I have to go lean for a while.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, you can't ask everybody else

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_03]: to take even a little bit of a haircut

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're not willing to eat your own dog food.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's so good.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_03]: When you do, that's the most amazing part

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and for anybody who's out there who hasn't been there,

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you never are, but just about every great story

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I've ever seen as one or two chapters

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_03]: where they were looking into the abyss.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Because you really start to figure out

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: who you are, I can't remember the great line from Wall Street,

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: but something about one man looks into the abyss.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is really when you find out who you are

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and you find out who your friends are

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and you find out who's with you.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So as long as you do the right thing

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and even better if you do the right thing times 10,

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: other people jump with you.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: How do I wanna kind of frame it this way?

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: How did you go from one point you took the business

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: from 14 to 28 million in revenue

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and you went from losing to having a $3 million profit, right?

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the time where it seems like you can't do any wrong.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If I understand yet, at one point

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably gonna play these maybe 400 employees

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: adding like three to five clients a week.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people had that in a year.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, whether it's 2008,

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's COVID, whether it's just life and business.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, how did you manage the roller coaster

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: or the mineral roller coaster?

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That implied that's a loaded question

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: with the law school for a little while.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: The implication in that question

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_03]: be that from my conscience,

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03]: dropped out of that real fast.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The implication and that question is

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_03]: that I did manage the emotional roller coaster.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess if Tito's in food or managing it,

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I did a great job.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I would have, everybody should have been buying Tito's stock.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I joined a lot of other people during the pandemic

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and indulging too much probably.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We, at that time, there were roughly six businesses

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: under the under the holding company

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: when we reversed merged into this public entity,

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_03]: which found myself in the situation,

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I found myself in a situation I had never been in before.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And ultimately, that I'm to blame for it.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a whole bunch of factors, but

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gonna relate to that.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's just easier to just, you know, own it and say,

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, overestimated my own capabilities,

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_03]: overestimated capabilities of those around me,

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: trusted some people.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I shouldn't have trusted all of those things,

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but all falls on me.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think they're coming to stake,

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: so it doesn't excuse them, we all may come

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and it would've been easy to just say at that point.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was me, he's again this is all in the midst

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: of COVID, so now that deal closed in June of 20 more.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_03]: We were working on it, that's why I was in New York,

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03]: actually, and then I backed out,

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, I just walked away from it for a little while

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and it came back around.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And in early 21, we had consummated the deal.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_03]: We were just waiting for some regulatory things

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: to happen for us to close the deal.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So I had like six businesses working under that umbrella

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and pretty good management team,

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_03]: couple, you know, in hindsight, a couple of folks,

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I think could have been better.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_03]: What we had to do if you were looking at,

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_03]: so we got some PPP funds,

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: so it had a bit of a cushion,

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: but it was still this indefinite,

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: like when is this gonna end

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: because the commonality amongst almost all of those businesses,

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but the exception of the cyber was that

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: it required people to go on site and install things

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: in offices, right?

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, I mean, fast forward 20 years,

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_03]: somebody's seeing this,

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: they're gonna be like what the hell's in office, right?

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, at that time,

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_03]: there's nobody going to office.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So, and then you couldn't get hardware.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_03]: There was no equipment.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was like, what in the name of God is next?

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And stuff that I had never had to deal with before,

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: at this magnitude, right?

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not, it was not an herd of

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: to have a shortage of access points for a job,

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: but it was unheard of to have an 18-month lead time

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: on access points for a job.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we had to start looking at supply chains differently

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and starting to figure things out staffing differently.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So what we did was we focused on

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: what businesses could benefit from these circumstances

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and the staffing business was the one that could benefit

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: because it's counter cyclical.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And as other people were trying to get lean

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and get rid of full time and augment

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: the staffing business could benefit.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So we started finding new things

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: that we could staff into

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_03]: because we had the tools and everything for it.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we found new customers in existing,

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: in existing verticals,

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_03]: in then we found because of the nature

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: of the customers we were selling into.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: They were teach telecom companies,

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: huge service providers,

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: new contacts within there.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And one after a few different segments of business

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and new territories.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we fixed them out.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we worked on the pricing

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_03]: because we could see cost were inflating very quickly.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Like things were getting weird.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we got very focused on the numbers.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So that business exploded relatively quickly

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and was carrying the day

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and keeping us modeling along.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_03]: The problem that we had in that entirety

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_03]: of the ecosystem that made life miserable,

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_03]: cost to capital was in 12 months

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_03]: cost of capital quadrupled.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_03]: In no time in my lifetime,

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_03]: my adult lifetime has ever happened, right?

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_03]: The last time something like that

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: was a 70s and seeing debt in the teens

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_03]: was like what the hell.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that was 2%.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So all of the sudden things went paywire.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So we just got laser focused on that business

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_03]: but we shot a cap table that was so screwed up.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And to some degree or another,

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I think not everybody was candid about how friendly

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_03]: all the players were.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: The things that were said in the assurances

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that were made that weren't followed through on

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and things like that.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But mostly at the end of the day, again,

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I accepted the responsibility

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and I really should have understood a few things better

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and not just people's intent, right?

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And so some of these debt instruments

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_03]: were really, really horrifically toxic with

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: there was, I think I had five cross-collateralized pieces

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_03]: of debt that I inherited.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Which yeah, I mean, oh my god, what a mess that was.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of it was convertible.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And what I didn't truly understand is they didn't actually

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: want to be paid.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to trade it out.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That was the game and they would make five or 10 times

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_03]: more money trading it out.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I was so naive, I didn't understand

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: we needed investment bankers to raise a pipe.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Turns out we went out and a cold-called shareholders.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I started a literally historical calling.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're finding them on Facebook, finding contact information

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: for people who had for some reason

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: or have been buying a lot of large amounts of shares

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_03]: in this company even before we reverse merch into it

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and then convincing them to invest in a different way.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And they would pay those people off.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_03]: At least, I mean, some significant steps forward

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and we sold that staffing business

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: which got rid of most of the raster, that toxic stuff.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And but the cost for us, the challenge throughout all of this

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: was a cost of capital was still ridiculous.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I high, the cost of being a microcap is in the public space

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: is ridiculous.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It's in the millions annually.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: One year, 1.5 to 1.7 million.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy stuff.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And you can't run even a $20 million.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And at that time, what all businesses together

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_03]: at the peak of that staffing business

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_03]: we had done, we did 55 million collectively

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_03]: in 58 million collectively and 23.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And the $20 million to 23, we would have done 85 million.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was, we were growing them,

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_03]: we were doing all the right things

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but the cost of capital was consuming the profits

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and then what wasn't being consumed was a cost of being public.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So it just was not, there really wasn't a way out

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_03]: but to grow, right?

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you couldn't cut your way out of it,

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_03]: we couldn't do any other things.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So when it came down the how you do it

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_03]: or what you do, it's what can we sell to our customers?

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_03]: What do our partners need?

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03]: What can we do for them that we're not doing

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_03]: with modest investment?

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Because all the while, here we've got this cyber business

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_03]: that's growing like 100% year over year.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not profitable and it's not going to be profitable

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_03]: for another couple of years that not today

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_03]: but as you're going through this,

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_03]: like it's not going to be profitable for a long time

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_03]: because we're building it very specifically

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_03]: for a purpose.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So how do I keep investing in that keep going

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_03]: or do you cut it off?

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Like several times, a couple of people said drop it

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and I said, that is the future of the business.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_03]: That thing is worth more than all

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: of the other things combined if we get to break even

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and God forbid profitability, right?

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You start talking to the salt.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So we just believed in that so much

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_03]: that we were willing to keep doing whatever we had to do.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But we just kept focusing on how to manage

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_03]: through sometimes the day, sometimes the week,

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_03]: sometimes the month, depending on the situation

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and keeps selling, right?

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Never stop selling and never stop delivering

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_03]: for the customer and then doing all that,

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_03]: we got to this place now personally.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay, huge so long, I,

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_03]: because you hit on it.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a long time to do it generally speaking

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_03]: but then just grinding through the last few years

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and the constant state of stress

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_03]: of a, you know, a got to make payroll, gotta get,

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever, we'll have to door needs cash today

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: to keep the lights on.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_03]: God, I believe in this thing enough

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: to keep investing in this thing that I know is gonna be

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_03]: losing money for a long time.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Gotta get, you know, still got a wife, kids,

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, one having real serious issues.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: The other not getting enough attention

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_03]: because her brothers have serious issues and all that

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_03]: puts a string on your relationships

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and takes away from your focus

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and takes away from your energy

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and all those things.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know exactly how, you know what?

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's some actually when I turned 50

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_03]: in my wife told me I was way too fat.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, he took me away.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He took me out of the country to the Caribbean

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_03]: for my birthday.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we got there and thought

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03]: that we were gonna have to come back that night.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I was looking at flights to come back

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_03]: because I didn't think we were gonna make it through the weekend.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: The company and I was trying to figure out how to break that

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_03]: to her because I knew she put a lot of time

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and energy into it.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But we did, we made it through that weekend

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and that my suit did an amazing job,

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_03]: put some stuff off and my wife gave me

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_03]: a bit of a wake-up call about my health

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and my gal show her.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_03]: As I got back on the health train

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and all that and all I can say is,

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_03]: again in the last two months,

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_03]: it's like when you start to look back

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I was walking and having an imaginary talk

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_03]: with one of my mentors who's passed

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_03]: thinking back on some crazy stuff

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and laughing literally on the street laughing,

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: probably some people thought it was crazy.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was good stuff and I could,

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_03]: the news there with me

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and but you know just looking back

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_03]: now with six-years or so to reflect.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of things that we should have done better

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_03]: than the coping business wise, I think he's there

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_03]: but because you guys,

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I should have really heated Jeff's advice

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_03]: from the Mont Jeff who's out the quarkies

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_03]: some bitch here on me.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Quark, he did a tune of 10's of millions of dollars

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_03]: as well, I think success from software businesses and stuff

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_03]: but he is very out front about his battles

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_03]: with depression and mental health issues and things like that

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and he always talks to other entrepreneurs

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and he's talking me about it.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't realize he knew he was seeing things

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I probably wasn't which is why he was doing it.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, sometimes his entrepreneurs, CEOs,

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_03]: whenever we don't ask for help, right?

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like everybody's always asking us for help

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_03]: so you used to be in the guy giving help.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_03]: The hardest thing I learned that lesson hard

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_03]: when I needed it in a family way

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_03]: when our son was first started experiencing challenges

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it was hard to actually accept help.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Like people came out of the woodwork

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_03]: that they'd heard about it.

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know how they heard most of them

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and they like poured out with help

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and I struggled with how to actually

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_03]: accept it or handle it, right?

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It was just weird because feeling helpless

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_03]: was a real weird feeling.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he put up these walls and probably

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_03]: so the railings I probably didn't cope with it

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_03]: so I should have

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and I probably should have listened to my friend Jeff

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_03]: and I probably should have taken my own advice

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_03]: that sometimes the voices you need to hear most

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_03]: are the ones that you don't want to listen to.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So...

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well said, I think if you've been in a business

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: for more than a minute,

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you're gonna have your own battles.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna get knocked down for sure.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just love that you're sharing so openly

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's your time, whether it's your marriage

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's all the business.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's so many people that

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's easy to put it on a pedestal.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I can go like, hey,

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: let's see, you know,

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: see your end-to-out 500 and this has peed up it.

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's all these awards and accolades

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm taking any of them away

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but there's so many people that think

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_00]: they go, that's the life I want

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and I don't know about you

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_00]: but in the middle of it,

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm often like, how trade with you?

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That whole steady paycheck thing and not dealing with

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_00]: so many people where you feel like,

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about you but I felt like

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to have the answer.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt this pressure where I was.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You always feel like,

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a trap

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's something else that my friend Jeff always talked about.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you always...

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I, as I got a little older

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and maybe a little slower,

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess, you know, like the think

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I could try to fool myself in the thinking

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: that I'm as quick-witted

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and light on my feet as I was 20 years ago

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'm not.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I need any time

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and I got away from,

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_03]: as I got into my mid 40s

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and got the business set up

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_03]: in a way where it functioned better without me

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_03]: because it was always overestimated

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_03]: my importance to it.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_04]: When I was young,

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and I had another good friend who always used to say,

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_03]: you just thought that important to...

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And he meant it

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and the nicest way, right?

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a reminder.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And so when I,

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_03]: when I had the business is functioning well

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and you had the right teams in place

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_03]: in all I had to worry about was to release this EOS system,

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_03]: the entrepreneurial operating system.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a best thing.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_03]: In 2017, it stumbled into that.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a best thing that ever happened to us.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We got away from it.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we were kind of using it

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but not really practicing it, right?

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_03]: In during COVID

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and there's everything was a constant crisis.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But as we got that functioning,

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I started to understand how important

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_03]: time away was.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And for me and some people think this is weird,

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_03]: but at first,

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_03]: at first I don't think that anyone

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_03]: including my wife understood it,

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_03]: the way I needed it.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But I started going to,

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_03]: we had bought the house in Key West in 2014

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_03]: or 15, something like that.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And then one, so when I got,

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I bought the committee back in 2017,

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: like every 90 days or so,

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I would just go down there and take customers

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_03]: or if I was gonna do for a gonna do an acquisition

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_03]: or a key hire.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I always took them down there

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_03]: because they can't hide

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever weirdness they have within them

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_03]: for more than a day or two down there,

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_03]: eventually it'll come out.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just wanted to know who they were.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I really wanted to know

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_03]: if it was an important decision to do that work.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: But I would go down there and spend the day by myself

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_03]: because the coolest part about that place

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_03]: is it's everybody's crazy

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's just weird and nuts.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So whatever, so it doesn't matter who you are.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: There's lots of really, really wealthy people down there.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_03]: There's lots of really, really poor people

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and pretty much defy to tell the difference.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Other than maybe, whether or not they've shawered recently,

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_03]: but in that kind of general he can tell.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So he, but I would go down there

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and just like kind of be by myself for a day or so.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And I like being by the ocean.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I like just being not even to be anybody

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and not have to answer anybody's questions

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And then if you don't take that time for yourself,

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're not caring for yourself,

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I will tell you the last few years,

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I was not the best version of myself

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_03]: because I was not doing the things

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that I knew made me good.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And by not doing that for me,

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I probably was not doing the best service

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_03]: to others that I could have

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and have already seen in the last 60 days,

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_03]: how much better I am,

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_03]: how much more effective I am

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and how much I can accomplish in half the time

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm taking the time

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and being on a polygetic about it

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_03]: to golf in the morning or to do it when I want to do it

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and set my schedule back to blocks of time

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: that work for me.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And the block is over, I'm done.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not doing that thing anymore,

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: even if it's not complete.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll deal with it.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And most of what I have to work on

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_03]: doesn't have to be done by this minute.

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So and that's by design because we're back to,

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_03]: we've got the right teams and the places

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_03]: where we're not right will be right

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that are really next Monday.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So which is a huge,

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_03]: like I'm gonna be like the happiest guy on earth

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: because I've got the best people in the world

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_03]: to work with on Monday and good people

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and awesome what they do.

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And bolstered a couple of week spots

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm replacing myself, I fire myself

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_03]: basically in a day to day roll

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and I get to go work with customers

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's the coolest part of the job.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That's like your Zona genius here.

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's my fastball, right?

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like one of my shareholders asked me

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: what's your fastball?

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So I like the details

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and he said I can hire operators all day long.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_03]: We can find the best operators who want you just gotta pay them.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's hard to find people who can go out

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and I get to talk to the employees

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and more too, which is awesome

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because they know I don't do the hiring and firing.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: When you fall back to the EOS parlance

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_03]: you fall back to the visionary role

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and not the integrator, you don't hire anybody.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He asked what they talked to you.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_03]: They talk real like then and you're not,

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you don't have to be their boss, right?

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And they respect you.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_03]: They know like you're still like the CEO or whatever,

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_03]: but you get to be like the chief people got high too

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and then you can truly have meaningful conversations

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_03]: with them and figure out what's wrong.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And oftentimes when you talk to them about the personal stuff

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_03]: that's when you find out what's really bugging them

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_03]: was really bugging them at work

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and what the real issue is as opposed to like

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_03]: there always point to that one thing

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and that thing is always like,

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I can fix that thing but then it'll be like another thing

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's usually like something more

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_03]: in the dynamics of the team.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And you start to figure out if the team's dysfunctional

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: those little things don't matter.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanna get to the people part for a moment

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_00]: which is, you know, I love what you talked about Key West

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_00]: like you bring everybody down there

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and everybody's crazy

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and I also love the part where you said,

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you know after a couple of days

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: spend some time yourself just by yourself

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_00]: but also after a couple of days like they come out

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you get to know them

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and I love that you're doing that with any key hire.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like there's this huge part of you

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that just loves coaching people,

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_00]: loves helping people,

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_00]: seeing them thrive and succeed.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So tell me, you know,

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_00]: like everything you told me was sure it was your story

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but I feel like most of it was colored through

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_00]: how do I take care of my team

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and I can relate to that so much.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So what drives you to do that work?

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't spend a lot of time

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to learn to ask why in a different context

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's interesting to you ask for that

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because I don't spend a lot of time thinking about

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_03]: why I want to do that as much as

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_03]: when I'm thinking about why now,

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to know the why for other people

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_03]: like why do you want to do this?

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Why that part in now

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_03]: when I'm thinking about why

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I think about it more in terms of

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I read this book called The Untethered Soul

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that somebody suggested for me

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's interesting

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_03]: it's like why am I reacting to this thing

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_03]: or this action

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: as I've been a lot of talking about that

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: as far as why I enjoy seeing people succeed.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't spend a lot of time thinking about why

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I just feel like I always played sports maybe

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's just maybe something intrinsic,

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_03]: it just makes me happy

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_03]: like we had this kid

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: and like so many awesome experiences coaching kids

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: we had this kid say him

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and he nicknamed himself Slayman Sami

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and I still see the kid around town

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_03]: in my son season once before.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_03]: He was awful, I mean there's no sense about that

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_03]: he was there was something not exactly right about him physically

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but damn that kid every time he moved up to bat

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_03]: he would tell me this is the one

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_03]: how am I gonna get it this time?

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: He was scared of the ball, I mean

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_03]: to the point where I should have trained

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_03]: dogs to be bird dogs which is really not really training

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you're just training them to respond to you

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because you're just taking what they know

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_03]: for thousands of years bread into him right?

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So, part of it's like teaching them not to be afraid of stuff

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not to be afraid of gunfire and things like that

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_03]: not to be afraid of you and different things

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_03]: so I thought well how do I get same me not to be afraid of the ball

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_03]: so it was kind of cold in a living Chicago

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_03]: so springtime baseball in Chicago

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_03]: you might be planning to snow sometimes it's crazy

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_03]: so you get this eight-year-old kid who is his puppy winter jacket on you know

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and he's a scrawny, scrawny kid

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and Sammy put your jacket back on

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_03]: we're gonna go out in the outfield

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and I said do his dad I said he's okay if I do something

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_03]: a little on orthodox with Sam and he's like

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_03]: except kind of weird and says sure fine whatever

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_03]: so I took him out there and made him stand like

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_03]: he was gonna take batting practice

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and I kept hitting him with the ball

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_03]: not hard just soft like just showing me that batting coat

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: like it wasn't gonna kill him right?

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but so that didn't work but all season Sammy

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I tried all I wanted was Sammy to get a hit

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and I wanted it so bad that like Sammy had to get a hit

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_03]: well he didn't

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and but our greatest moment in that season

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_03]: the highlight of the year was in the playoffs

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_03]: we can they're like eight years old right I mean

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_03]: there you have goofy you know my kid was out eating day and

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_03]: doines and they weren't weird stuff in the outfield because

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: baseball really wasn't his thing um that I'm sure he was actually

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_03]: my son because it couldn't hit a baseball so

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that was me hated hitting him I'm like this is not

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_03]: the part of the game man uh he's a great outfielder

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_03]: fecesus of kill me for saying

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_03]: he the the greatest moment of that season was in the playoffs

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_03]: my son had to lead off and he was an awful hitter

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and then there was another kid who never got a hit

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and then slamming Sammy and we were down three runs

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: in the bottom of the last inning

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_03]: with those three as our first three batters and the kid the kid he even

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_03]: uh was my son's best friend who was really bringing it

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and he he was he was gonna be their closer

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and I said to my son I said son you're the lead off hitter this

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: sitting you know what that means right he said

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: lead off hitter's got to get on base

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I said yep so you gotta get on base son because

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_03]: at any cost right that I said got to get on base on the lead off hitter's got

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: to get on base new is no chance in hell he was gonna get hit

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_03]: first pitch he leans out over the plate takes one in the rib cage

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: giant thugs everybody holds her breath

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_03]: he sprints the first his happy skidby because he was getting on

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: he was getting on his favorite habit the next kid gets

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: being his name was tri every that this was like

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_03]: this is how much I love seeing these kids six eight

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_03]: triggins being that pitcher has to come out of the game because and then

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: at that age if he had two kids you're consider wild

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: you gotta bring in a new pitcher they're bringing in this other kid it was

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: awful could barely throw the ball he was the only kid they had left

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and he hits slam and Sammy so slam and Sammy

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: sprints the first place we've not got bases loaded with the three worst hitters

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_03]: ever played baseball and we got a chance and Sammy is standing over there on

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: first he represented I think the winning run and he's standing over there

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: like he just won the super ball I mean he is going to Disney

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and the next kid up although drills the ball to the fence those three

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: score pain the moan in with Austin next game got our butts kicked

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_03]: because we weren't that good but for that moment those three kids were the hero

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: of that game and it was awesome and then the next year Sammy was on a different

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: team then and I was the assistant coach I was coaching first base and he dropped the

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: blooper over the first baseman said they got the first hit of his lifetime

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: he ran through first was running around all over the field it's

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: he was so excited I didn't know the hard to yell at our kids to tag him out

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and our head coach said he has to get his first hit against us I said Luke I didn't

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: like be happy for this kid we worked so hard like we had a part in this like we

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_03]: didn't get it with us but you know we had a hand in it so I mean it's just I don't know man

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean how many how many people along the way taught you how to do something

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and we're excited when you did it and how good did that make you feel

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that it made them feel good right I just it's it's awesome to see people succeed and I've pulled

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: people from crazy walks of life into this and watch them just kick ass and the run through brick wall

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: for you on top of it when they start realizing they're good right like they start having this

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: sense of worth and and then you know sadly sometimes they leave because you don't have anything

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: better for them and they go on something better in its second but it's like part of the deep all

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like very good friend came here for two years and the plan was look either move up or you

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: go get a better job somewhere else and he's in a profession he's a fine eight sky and

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and he did he got a job that paid him like 50,000 hours more I couldn't offer him that and he

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: wasn't and he didn't have the public background to take the other stuff so I was bummed

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: but like he's thriving so that's good to see it if you had any part in that like you

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: you know it's I think too often we just get wrapped around like all they lost me

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: you know I did all this for them and again that goes to the score keeping thing right like

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: that's it and then look I'm not perfect there's homes where I'm like damn I mean I've had sales

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_03]: people where I felt like I poured myself into them and then the minute things were a little rocky

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I needed just a little concession you know I wanted to explain it to an error literally an error on

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_03]: a complaint that was a $30,000 mistake because of something somebody typed and I said

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_03]: you're right it's in black and white I'll give you that money how pay you that money tomorrow

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: if you want it but you know that you didn't accomplish the goal you know that's a mistake

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: if you take the money it does change the dynamic of our relationship you understand that

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and that person said yes I want the money and I said okay and our relationship changed forever

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: right like that because you feel like you've poured something into them you that person was making

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: three times what the best they ever did before three times and I said it would take us two years

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: to give them their three years of year to start we didn't have the time like in hindsight you know

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I got wrapped up in it because of whatever my ego or whatever like the net net was it's really

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: my mentor told me that I should feel pity for those people he's right it takes a little time

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_03]: to step away and think about it you really should feel you really should feel pity for them because

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: they traded the one thing that no amount of money in the world is what we're trading that was my

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: right I was a little because conversely if if that person hadn't been making photo

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: for a year after having two or three great years or whatever I'm a fire in a me either right

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: like say okay it's a balance cycle like we'll just we'll get a bat will we'll get him next year right

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and yeah can't go off forever but once somewhere else and guess what didn't make the numbers

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: again fire it was a short term who's been three other places since right so you know Harold

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: was right like that you you you you you you know Phil's art for people who don't see the

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: long game in the same way we're understand the value of the personal relationships I go with it

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't agree with that more Mark a couple questions for you you've covered so much

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: what and you work your year what's the biggest lesson?

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Man it's a lot of them.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't writing. I said I think think I understand your strengths and weaknesses

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and just good advice out there in a lot of places and you know even places yet you don't

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: think about like best advice I got was from my dad who will tell you that I probably never

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: listen to what he said nice to say that it's mostly true but everyone's a while

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: everyone's a while I was paying attention my dad was a cop for to shy at 30 years and

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the day before I left for the police academy he told me something about police work that I think is probably

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: the best advice I ever actually got in business and he asked me to do two things

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: the first one was never to lie about something because he only can do that once

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and there's real consequences in that business to lying and you know there's pressure do it at times

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: so they said don't do it I'm just saying okay and he said the second one he said you're going

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_03]: to say okay you're going to think this is easy but it's really hard he said never forget

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that you're dealing with human beings and and everything you do there's still people

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: so never take away a human being dignity and I said yeah okay it seems easy enough it's not

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: it's really hard like when they bite you or smash you try to grab for your gun or

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: when try to stab me in the neck with a pen like that's easy to take that personally and

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_03]: it's completely loose it's easy to completely lose your mind it's hard to stop in fact that's

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: you rely on having good partners who know you know when you've flipped the switch right

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and they need to really back in but I can honestly say that I'm so fortunate because there's

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: only like two times I ever think I actually let him down and screwed that up and

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: both of those times I a years later ended up with those people found me through somebody

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: that they had contact with or my former partner in one case or another another cop that they saw

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: out and and and third time actually where we were so the guy found me on Facebook and and

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that moment where I might have lost it on them and did up being a turning point for them in

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_03]: two cases of addiction with drugs and alcohol and one in a bad relationship where you know

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: they ended up that was their rock bottom moment and so what was you know a bad moment for me

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: because I felt bad that I'd broken my commitment and that I'd done something I shouldn't have done

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: wasn't illegal it's just like treating people badly you shouldn't feel good about right

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: no matter what no matter what and and and and they were ugly circumstances like you're dealing with

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_03]: people and ugly situations but those turned out to be I got redemption out of it

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and a little good story of that redemption and then you know I really thought about that a lot

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that work because it's it's easy to be wrapped up in mistakes or think the world's

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: coming to an end but I you know I guess if I could like when you think it's that bad

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: like I'm going to I think it's that bad I always reflect back on a conversation I had with a

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: one say when I got in it's in the telecom he was a terrible boss always stole my ideas I hated that

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and and but he said to me one time he said I don't understand and I said what he said I've got

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: you get two peers in my region and I can't get either one of them to make a damn decision to

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: save their life but you make a decision go to bad and you live with it and if it's bad you just

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: keep moving on and keep adjusting but you don't think twice about it you don't fret over

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_03]: it all day you don't like wait a week or hope I won't circle back with you on it he said why

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that's an why is it easy to make a decision you said yeah because nobody's gonna die today

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: then you looked at me like I was crazy what about that all the zemin I said no matter what we do here

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: but we just couldn't die like we might maybe lose a little money or somebody quits or we get

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: fired by a customer or whatever no it was our great things but like you know I worked in a job

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: where if you made a mistake you could kill somebody if you have to make a mistake you could get killed

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_03]: like yeah that's not ideal so it was a different frame of reference and in sometimes I have to

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: just unfuck it sorry the grass and move on right like yeah if you don't fly from

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_03]: point A to point Z you go like all this is exactly all over constant course correcting and you got

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: to be okay with that when you just have to be okay with that and sometimes it's a uter

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_03]: right like shit screw up own it and I will tell you our best customer relationships my best

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: relationships have all come from them on in the fire us like and how you handle so

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_03]: don't you move on and if you my way if they can't accept that you're making a say

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: it's a you can if you respond to it right way and if you do all the right things

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you shouldn't be a customer anyways so one thing you would do over if you had the opportunity

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I would have it's funny because I asked people I was doing a podcast for a while

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: got the time to get back to it now but I asked what's like one thing the one question I asked

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_03]: everybody the only scripted question is what would you tell at 20 year younger version of you and

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that comes from the one thing that I would do over again as I would have figured out my

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: priorities better when I was younger I don't know I think with with age comes perspective hopefully

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: like the thing can get a little better my not be as I might have lost a little off my fastball

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think I think you know my accuracy is probably better because I'm lazy or now but

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish that I had understood the people part of the business a little better and then I

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: had prioritized especially the point you know is I'm dropping off the baby in two days

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_03]: the baby being 18 a college you know that the time is fleeting and

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: we're not getting any of it back and none of us are getting out of here alive right so

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_03]: all planes land and it's just a matter of how gracefully some some more gracefully in

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_03]: others so I just wish that I could have thought about that a little more I'm so fortunate

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: that I'm that some really great people and I don't know why I'll never really know why

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_03]: they invested in me got nothing out of it in most cases other than a friendship and

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish that I admit them sooner and got the perspective but not sure not sure I was open to it

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: at the time either so I don't know hmm that's a great feedback great lesson

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what's it common myth about running in a misp or attack business did you love the bus

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that I think the biggest myth is that you have to be a techno genius wizard person

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I you know I see like in cyber security I say this all the time sometimes people get crazy

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_03]: wild out about it but I don't think technology is the solution technology is actually the problem

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: that's usually what they're trying to solve for right it's how to solve their technology problems

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and in cyber security people just throw tools at it whatever right and I think there's this concept

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people especially in the smaller MSPs people get into it because they're good at it

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: technologically speaking whatever but to truly nurture the business and the way that it deserves

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and make it scalable and sustainable and all that you have to really focus on the business and I think

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: there's some good influencers out there that reach that and put systems together around it but

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I think this myth and it even goes for the business side with this myth that you have to know

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: everything be on top of everything be in the weeds on certain things I think that's the greatest

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_03]: in fact I think it's probably the siren song hey you and you can just follow that song right up into

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_03]: the rocks along because you're not watching the business you don't understand the fundamentals

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_03]: and then conversely for those who are not super technical and a better on the business side

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: something we talked about earlier is just know your limitations have good advisors and be willing

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_03]: to listen and be okay with having to ask for help I mean there's there's a lot of really good

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_03]: people out there at least in my case I know I can call if I if I want to pick their brain or just

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: vent or whatever and find yourself some of those and if you don't have one you know find me on

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: length and reach out call me whenever I'm always happy to I love talking about this stuff

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean it's it's it's it's it's it's also again it's a chance it helps somebody succeed or

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_03]: to turn kind of like turn around the businesses they're hard but that could be really rewarding

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_03]: too for some of the same reasons so I don't know find find those people I love that I love that

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: what are you looking forward to right now what's interesting to you Mark oh I'm really interested

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_03]: in a couple of things inside the business day to day I'm really interested in how

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: artificial intelligence and machine learning can change the way we're doing things in a constructive way

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: make people better and and so it showed me something last week that blew my mind and and

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: it's I think they thought it was about the tack but it was about how it can impact people

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_03]: thinking in business and not as it is about how you could customize learning if I taught something

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_03]: everything there is a no about a topic and then taught it to be able to interpret your responses

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and understand your weaknesses on the topic and where you need to be helped and how you need to

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: be helped and do it in a way that works for you on the man whenever you want it like that could

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: revolutionize the educational process right I could change the way we train people it could change

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think so many people are looking for ways to replace people with AI and God I hope that

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: never happens I saw Mark in recent said like things are going to be ridiculously cheap and

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_03]: jobs are going to be a thing of the past if you know I don't see that maybe maybe I'm crazy but

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you could make these huge impacts and how we make people better and and

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really looking forward to that I'm looking forward to also have a little bit of time

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to help figure out a better way to help small businesses in both just access to answers and coaching

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_03]: without like I don't want to say this or only I just think a lot of people are

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: to slow people out there they're all for you help and sort of like the sign at the airport

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: this is of somebody's somebody's asking you if you need a ride she thinks yeah you shouldn't get

[01:19:55] [SPEAKER_03]: the car with them yeah like there's all these wackos out there offer and stuff or or there's

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: the massive appeal if I can teach you my system that Jordan you know the new age Jordan Belforts right

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think I won't you know I'm trying to figure out a way I think there's a way where you can

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_03]: help people reasonably and give them access to good quality advice and access to the experience that we

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: pick up over 20 or 30 years of doing this I mean like 25 years of accidentally learned a lot of

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_03]: things you know I mean I'll be the brightest guy in the world I've learned there's no there's definitely

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: no learning in the second kick of the mule right so I tried to pick up after the first one second

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_03]: just fucking hurts so yeah it's a lot worse because I should have known better right and then

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think the other thing that I'm looking forward to because hand in hand with that is

[01:20:54] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to figure out is part of that helping his ways to find really reform and help them find

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: better access to capital because the system is completely broken for small businesses and

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: most of the time people who are out there offering capital are not people that you

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_03]: want to take that capital from so I think just got to be a better way and I'm really looking

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_03]: forward to trying to find a way to make that happen I love that those are things I can relate

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: to directly and and in every entrepreneur can relate to some time or another man I mean

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_03]: it's usually small amounts of money and that's the problem right like people need a little bit of

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: advice and and 250,000 a half a million dollars and and if you gave if you gave them those two things

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_03]: that usually could go really far with it especially if you structure it in a way that

[01:21:53] [SPEAKER_03]: protects them from themselves right and but that's not out there easily and an SPA loan and put

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_03]: your house on the one that takes some companies right I mean like I look most of my life with

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_03]: with all my family's assets on the line and and that's that's not an easy thing to do I mean

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: that's you know especially in your life to have to sign the documents so he found a talk of

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that shit getting real so life comes at you fast when you say any just sign saying these personal

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: guarantees yeah that's that's the different kind of conversation entirely yeah um what's the one

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: book you'd recommend you know I guess it depends on the context um there's a couple that I think

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_03]: it made up big difference for me over the years and sales there was a book called Managing Strati

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_03]: accounts that I thought was really really good at at walking through a process of how to deal with

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_03]: complex sales it really informed my thinking on it I don't even know who's got it it's been

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: passed around the so many of my friends at this point um another book that I read that thought was really

[01:23:11] [SPEAKER_03]: great and it was actually another is a really gesture of kindness that somebody did for me

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Father Kevin Spees who is a professor at Lewis University who I went to college he saw me show up

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I showed up for first day of class and he noticed my boots I was working midnight so

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_03]: he noticed my police boots and plus little older than all the other kids in class

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and he said what would you be doing if you weren't here so that would be sleeping

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and he said what he means sleeping so I work midnight so I'd go sleep go to court

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: you know go back to sleep you can go to work and he said well okay i'm gonna give you a book

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_03]: read I a coker and he made me read I a coker and um to report for him on it it was a fascinating

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: book actually I was really really interesting study in how he turned the company around

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: the whole government you know people think of it as a government bailout but it's really the

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_03]: government backing and the way he started it and it was interesting because he you know

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: it was tough on everybody it's tough for the union it was tough for the equity it was tough for

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: everybody and politically not real you know um did make everybody happy but I think that was a

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: great book about adversity and then this this book on to other solid things a good book about

[01:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to uh trying to understand yourself and the uh who real you and everything that goes

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: on inside it's it's pretty I just recently read that one I think that's pretty cool I think of it

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: like you know one's about skills one's about just business in general and I think always

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_03]: looking for the next one about like you know self improvement I love that I definitely

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and those to my reading list um you made it off for earlier so in folks are listening and they do

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: want to reach out and get connected with you for all of you or another how do they find you your business

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: how what's the best way to get it on there so they can always find my own LinkedIn um more

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: quarter and then our website is www.highwire networks.com there's all sorts of links that go to

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_03]: a bazillion people and if you write in somebody else forward it to me or whatever I get copied

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: on a bunch of them so um you know it's a feedback or info or whatever so I'm more I respond

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_03]: to a lot of them personally people are kind of surprised especially some of the investor ones but

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm always happy to talk and try to help if I can and even if it's just trying to figure out

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_03]: how to get a lot of conversations with friends about when it's time to shut the business down

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_03]: as you're sad but you know I'm a two two good friends that called me and asked

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_03]: if I knew when it was so you're asking the wrong guy because I probably should have and

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: didn't to couple of times they got through it but um if you're asking that question it's good

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that we're talking right if yeah because it was really hurting them so I'm genuinely I would genuinely

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_03]: be happy if uh anybody needs help I think it's all come. That's such a gift if you're listening

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that is gift at least I believe it is take advantage of Mark's generosity and we'll make

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: sure to have all the links in the show notes Mark last thing if you would share what the tattoo

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_03]: on your arm about the ending. Yeah it says this chapter only makes the ending sweeter um I don't

[01:27:02] [SPEAKER_03]: display on here so you're saying there we go a little bit. I think that's what we told that's what I

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: told my son a lot and it was probably saying it to myself as much as to him when he he has to

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: autoimmune diseases like that came out about a year apart and uh we had the first one sucked

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_03]: as diabetes he's a type one diabetes diabetic without that was tough and it and it is I don't

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_03]: know me to downplay it but uh about a year later he got severe ulcerative colitis at a time when

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_03]: he was getting ready to report for camp for football for college and lost 30 pounds couldn't get

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_03]: out of bed went to camp had they come home for about a week and um he was unsure how to how to

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and uh that was just a tough time so it was something that my personal revering revering

[01:28:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Michael who uh that's all their crazy story I met him one of his utilizing uh Mark my mentor

[01:28:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and we we stay in touch and I don't go to like the big and organized religion but I go to church

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: with him on the phone uh he's out in California so we talked at least once a month and that guy

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: knows every time every time some ways somehow the last time he called me I was not daily with

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: stressful enough and I found myself in the emergency room that thought I was having a heart attack

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and he called me uh like how and the hell the you know um I mean this is crazy so um I really I really

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: believe that it's something to think about because we all go through those tough chapters in that

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_03]: book man and um that's why I said a love a good story about redemption with you know when when uh

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: when you get to the other side and you're always get to the other side. I mean I'll be exactly

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: how you thought it was going to be but um it really makes the tough really makes the ending sweeter

[01:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: when you go through the tough chapters and every great success story I know has tough chapters

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah without exception uh this has been an amazing gift mark thank you from the bottom of my heart

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I have been not sure if I should jump for joy or a cry or just you know be in a moment in present

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: with how authentic and vulnerable you've shown up so thank you for this gift that's I believe

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: going to help people in the right time and the right moment make sure to take Mark off on his dinner

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: software um and I can't say thank you enough for giving me this time and for being on MSP mindset

[01:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you this is uh I mean to me this is awesome to get the opportunity to you know to share

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope it helps you know you know it's where you just throw it out there all you can do is throw it

[01:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: out there and hope that uh it helps one person and it's it's best time we could ever spend