Your MSP Must Evolve - Or Risk Going Extinct, with Bob Coppedge (MSP Titan #19)

[00:00:00] What are you doing to make sure you're evolving? And if your answer is, we're implementing AI. No, that's a transaction. What are you doing for the next thing? What are you doing to make sure you're constantly evolving? IT is very different in 2024 than it was in 2020, than it was in 2026 or 2016 or whatever. So too should your goods and services that you're delivering.

[00:00:24] Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset. And today I continue my mission to interview 100 of the fastest growing and most interesting MSPs on the planet. I'm joined by Bob Coppedge, who may be best known for father of co-managed or co-mit, but we don't talk about that at all today. We talk about how you can ensure your MSP can differentiate and never be a price war to the bottom.

[00:00:50] We talk about MSP A, who doesn't differentiate. MSP B, who gets the latest tooling, invests in their team and drives down their efficiency. Basically, they have a labor advantage. If you're watching and listening, that might be you. And then there's MSP C. They not only do that, but they realize that every single year, there are entirely new capabilities that you can and should bring to your client that have less and less to do with IT and more and more to do with the information age.

[00:01:19] The spoiler is there is no competition if you're MSP C and you will never have to compete on price again. If you want to understand Bob's law and Bob's corollary, don't miss out on our conversation today.

[00:01:34] I think we're getting to the point where co-manage needs to be talked about less because it needs to be just one different way for us to do business.

[00:01:48] And so I'm actually, I'm working on another book and the next book is really just going to be talking about IT support in general, whether it's done by internal IT people or MSPs or a co-managed or subscription or consultants or whatever.

[00:02:06] And to try to break it down into building blocks that we all put together.

[00:02:11] And I think that originally, and this is true for me as well.

[00:02:15] And when I wrote the book, I was really treating co-managed as a specific, as a different version of service delivery than managed peer managed services.

[00:02:26] Even though you wanted to make sure they were parallel as possible.

[00:02:29] I'm now to the point where they're not really that different.

[00:02:33] If you want to do it right, whatever that means.

[00:02:36] And that right now we're basically in a position where we have to be able to hybridize our support delivery, our service delivery.

[00:02:45] And people talk about how wonderful the MSP market is.

[00:02:49] I don't think it necessarily has of a fantastic future unless we adapt to be able to be a hybrid delivery model for organizations.

[00:02:59] Well, let's just keep on that topic and keep going.

[00:03:02] Interesting. So it's interesting.

[00:03:05] You say it's maybe not the MSP model, maybe not that solid unless you get to a hybrid delivery.

[00:03:13] What does hybrid delivery mean?

[00:03:14] So what is hybrid delivery for anything?

[00:03:16] I mean, you could basically go back to the McDonald's.

[00:03:19] You got your burgers exactly how they made it.

[00:03:22] That was it.

[00:03:23] It wasn't until Burger King came out and said, have it your way.

[00:03:26] Now McDonald's learned that, no, they have to do the same thing.

[00:03:30] Remember that the MSP, first of all, there is no true definition of an MSP or there are many definitions of an MSP.

[00:03:38] And I think that's absolutely true.

[00:03:40] And a majority of MSPs are probably still stuck in delivering roughly what they've been delivering for the last 10, 12 years.

[00:03:48] They may have added a couple of security pieces.

[00:03:50] They may have a little bit more cloud involved.

[00:03:53] But by and large, it's the same.

[00:03:57] And I think that when we take a look at what small, medium businesses want, they want their IT to work securely and productively.

[00:04:07] They want to.

[00:04:09] They're making widgets.

[00:04:10] They want to make and they want to sell.

[00:04:12] They want to service.

[00:04:12] They want to install widgets effectively.

[00:04:15] IT?

[00:04:16] Yeah, sure.

[00:04:17] We want that.

[00:04:17] We need that because that's how we do our widget game.

[00:04:20] Okay.

[00:04:21] And to essentially say for the MSPs to essentially say the only way I'm going to do business with you is if you only do business with me.

[00:04:30] Okay.

[00:04:30] That is self-serving and not necessarily delivering the most productive solution to the client because the client may have specific needs that you can't meet.

[00:04:39] So you have to have a certain amount of flexibility.

[00:04:42] So when you think about from a small, medium business standpoint, if you think about how do they acquire and consume IT services for them to do their thing?

[00:04:54] Okay.

[00:04:54] What's their fuel?

[00:04:55] They either buy stuff, value-added reseller, rent stuff, subscribe stuff, which could be cloud services or anything along those lines, bring in consultants.

[00:05:07] Those would be whether it be staff org or specific project-oriented temporary services that are very focused and then leave.

[00:05:16] Or they're going to use an MSP.

[00:05:18] Yay us.

[00:05:19] MSP.

[00:05:20] Or they're going to have internal IT.

[00:05:23] Okay.

[00:05:24] But the day of it being one of those things is over.

[00:05:29] And the MSP was basically set here to go, okay, we're the MSP.

[00:05:34] We're going to replace the internal IT person.

[00:05:36] You don't need them anymore.

[00:05:38] Oh, and by the way, we're also going to do your project.

[00:05:40] So you won't need the consultants anymore.

[00:05:42] Oh, and by the way, when you buy stuff, you'll buy through us.

[00:05:44] So we'll be your VAR.

[00:05:45] Oh, and you're going to subscribe stuff.

[00:05:47] You'll be subscribing through us.

[00:05:48] That's wonderful.

[00:05:50] That's also highly unrealistic.

[00:05:52] When the SMBs are getting to a certain level of maturity in terms of what they're trying to do.

[00:05:57] And for the smaller SMBs, you're not a specialist on everything.

[00:06:01] Sorry, boys and girls.

[00:06:03] You know, you're not.

[00:06:04] So we have to have a certain amount of flexibility.

[00:06:08] Otherwise, our business is going to go to the person who does.

[00:06:12] And part of the challenge is that, okay, so we're going to go to a client.

[00:06:16] We're going to work with you.

[00:06:17] And we need to make sure that you're not asking us to learn stuff that we'll never use for anybody else but you.

[00:06:23] Okay, because I can't do that and make a profit.

[00:06:26] At the end of the day, I have to make a profit.

[00:06:28] And at the end of the day, the client needs to see the value in terms of the relationship.

[00:06:31] If either of those things don't happen, I'm sorry it's a bad business model.

[00:06:35] It won't last.

[00:06:37] Okay, so I want to see here basically go, okay, to the client, let's come up with a managed service agreement

[00:06:43] so that we have an ongoing relationship that provides goods and services that are close enough to standard.

[00:06:52] So we don't have to invent anything new.

[00:06:55] But it's an ongoing thing.

[00:06:58] And it's not something I could just buy and pull out of a box.

[00:07:02] That's where MSPs come in.

[00:07:04] We do a wonderful thing.

[00:07:05] And if that company also says, but I need somebody on staff who understands what we do and how we do it,

[00:07:13] okay, now let's talk about the co-managed because we'll partner with that individual or team

[00:07:19] so that together we can address what the IT needs are for the client,

[00:07:25] whether they be very specialized or they just want somebody on site or some such.

[00:07:29] And when appropriate, we will share our tools, our resources, our methodologies

[00:07:34] so that that person is actually more enhanced than they would be.

[00:07:37] Okay, cool.

[00:07:38] Now they need to get their ERP system running, which is going to be a cloud-based ERP.

[00:07:43] Where do they do that?

[00:07:43] They do that from the cloud.

[00:07:45] So they're going to get a subscription service.

[00:07:47] If it goes through us, great.

[00:07:48] But if we're not ERP experts, why should it go through us?

[00:07:53] You know, so we're not content experts.

[00:07:55] It goes directly from the subscription service to the client.

[00:07:58] If we are experts, then it goes through us, but we do a value add.

[00:08:03] Okay?

[00:08:04] Cool.

[00:08:05] But we're not ERP implementation experts.

[00:08:07] Hey, let's find consultants who can do that and basically apply that,

[00:08:13] and we'll work with the consultants because we represent the client's overall strategic IT interest,

[00:08:19] unless there's a CIO involved, whatever.

[00:08:21] And then the same thing true as far as them actually acquiring any particular product,

[00:08:28] in which case they want to do a value added resale,

[00:08:31] in which case we can either engage as the primary resource for that,

[00:08:35] in which case we're going to get paid for it to a certain degree,

[00:08:37] or they can do it themselves, in which case we're not adding that value add,

[00:08:42] but the client is taking the risk.

[00:08:44] So there's a certain both volatility there in terms of that circumstance or situation,

[00:08:51] and it's both a risk that we're all taking that we can all work together,

[00:08:56] but it's also a tremendous opportunity because if we can,

[00:09:00] then the client is going to have this best of all worlds all working together,

[00:09:05] if we're all cooperating and on the same page,

[00:09:08] or going to be the worst of all worlds because we're not cooperating together,

[00:09:12] and we're stepping on each other's toes all over the bloody place.

[00:09:14] And I guess what I'm saying is for the smaller SMBs,

[00:09:19] they're going to want things to be simpler.

[00:09:22] They'll want things to go through a single source,

[00:09:26] whether it be the MSP or internal IT, but it's the same thing.

[00:09:31] Whereas the larger SMB is going to want the flexibility

[00:09:36] and someone to help manage that and to coordinate it.

[00:09:41] And I just think that from an industry standpoint,

[00:09:44] when we tend to talk about the MSP market,

[00:09:48] we just talk about the MSP market.

[00:09:49] We don't talk about how do we work with everybody else.

[00:09:52] And when we talk about co-manage,

[00:09:53] we talk about co-manage as if it's just this thing that we do.

[00:09:58] You know, oh, we can also do co-manage.

[00:10:00] You know, you go to most MSP websites,

[00:10:03] if they talk about co-manage,

[00:10:04] they don't talk about how they do it.

[00:10:06] They just say they do it.

[00:10:09] You know, so I think there's a maturity process

[00:10:12] and an evolution process.

[00:10:13] You can already see some of the steps

[00:10:15] that are happening along these lines.

[00:10:18] You've got subscription services

[00:10:19] that now sell both directly to the end client

[00:10:22] as well as through the MSP.

[00:10:24] There are some people who are like,

[00:10:26] oh my God, that's a huge travesty on the industry.

[00:10:29] I don't necessarily believe that.

[00:10:31] If you're not adding value

[00:10:34] to whatever it is you're presenting to the client,

[00:10:37] you're a reseller.

[00:10:39] You're nothing more than that.

[00:10:40] So don't pretend that you deserve to have

[00:10:42] the profit margins and the best uses

[00:10:45] and all of that kind of fun stuff.

[00:10:46] I will say if the original presenter of the product

[00:10:50] is poaching your clients, different story.

[00:10:53] But just the fact, and I'll even say Kaseya.

[00:10:58] Kaseya is not an MSP company.

[00:11:00] They are an IT services company that works with MSPs.

[00:11:04] So the fact that Kaseya sells all their services

[00:11:06] to internal IT folks, they always have, they always will.

[00:11:10] There's nothing wrong with that.

[00:11:12] You know, and honestly, if someone sells,

[00:11:16] you know, if you're an MSP

[00:11:17] and you've got your clients buying Kaseya products

[00:11:20] and your client found a way to buy

[00:11:23] the same Kaseya product at a lower price,

[00:11:25] if it wasn't them buying a Kaseya product at a lower price,

[00:11:28] they would have bought somebody else's product

[00:11:30] and then the same bloody thing at a lower price over it.

[00:11:33] Yeah.

[00:11:33] And there's, they're not the first ones.

[00:11:35] I don't know.

[00:11:35] SolarWinds.

[00:11:36] And others that, right.

[00:11:39] No.

[00:11:39] Everybody complains about Dell.

[00:11:41] Anybody, everybody, whatever.

[00:11:42] I mean, the bottom line is, to a certain degree,

[00:11:45] I think a lot of MSPs feel entitled.

[00:11:48] Feel that their vendors have no alliance to end customers.

[00:11:55] And it's just one of those,

[00:11:57] and remember, you know,

[00:11:59] I call myself the Krasya geek for a reason.

[00:12:02] It's one of those where you,

[00:12:04] you have to provide the value.

[00:12:07] If you rely solely on the tool

[00:12:10] that you're using to provide the value,

[00:12:13] you're a reseller.

[00:12:14] That's all you are.

[00:12:16] So the question is,

[00:12:17] is that when you take a look at,

[00:12:19] here's the security package.

[00:12:20] If the security package is simply a fire and forget

[00:12:23] and you're done with it,

[00:12:25] you're a reseller.

[00:12:26] If the security package needs to be managed,

[00:12:28] monitored, maintained, configured,

[00:12:30] has to be done just so,

[00:12:32] blah, blah, blah,

[00:12:32] and you've done 40 of those already

[00:12:34] or 100 of these already,

[00:12:36] you now have an expertise

[00:12:38] that that demands and deserves

[00:12:41] an additional markup and additional value.

[00:12:44] But you need to also be able to communicate that.

[00:12:47] This episode is brought to you by Servosity.

[00:12:50] I started Servosity because I was an MSP

[00:12:53] that lost data

[00:12:55] because I thought backup success

[00:12:57] meant I could recover.

[00:12:59] And boy, was I wrong.

[00:13:00] If you've ever been there or anywhere close,

[00:13:02] you know how much your stomach turns

[00:13:04] over the thought of not being able to recover

[00:13:07] any version of the data for your client.

[00:13:11] Now, naively,

[00:13:12] I set off to build a better mousetrap

[00:13:14] and build a better backup product

[00:13:16] until finally I realized

[00:13:18] it's all about the people and the process.

[00:13:21] So you have a choice to make.

[00:13:23] Do nothing and bury your head in the sand

[00:13:25] or level up your processes.

[00:13:27] Now you can do that by either hiring Servosity

[00:13:29] or we'll take all the workload

[00:13:30] of managing backups off of your plate

[00:13:32] and test your backups daily, weekly, monthly, and quarterly.

[00:13:35] Or you can keep the tech stack you have in place,

[00:13:39] your existing backup into your provider

[00:13:41] and steal my 18 years of knowledge

[00:13:43] and download that process

[00:13:44] and add that to your operational maturity today.

[00:13:49] I want to unpack something you said earlier

[00:13:51] because, you know,

[00:13:52] you said you got to be flexible enough.

[00:13:53] You got to adapt to the client's needs.

[00:13:56] But everybody for that past, I don't know,

[00:13:59] decade has been driving towards,

[00:14:01] no, you got to have a standard stack on every client.

[00:14:04] And we all, you know,

[00:14:06] the only model that works is flat rate per user, etc.

[00:14:11] And so therefore I, you know,

[00:14:13] can't possibly be an MSP

[00:14:14] if I'm not doing all of those things,

[00:14:18] which kind of leads to that homogeneous view

[00:14:20] of like you have to adapt to my way of doing my stack,

[00:14:24] my tools, my processes.

[00:14:26] So if I'm an MSP that's been driving that direction,

[00:14:30] how do I be flexible enough

[00:14:33] to meet the needs

[00:14:34] without just inheriting 12 different vendors

[00:14:38] for the next 12 clients?

[00:14:39] You just included that word enough.

[00:14:43] Okay.

[00:14:44] Because here's the thing.

[00:14:45] If people think it's this black and white,

[00:14:47] all in one thing,

[00:14:48] it isn't.

[00:14:50] All right.

[00:14:51] Forget co-manage for a moment.

[00:14:53] Every client you go to

[00:14:55] is going to have certain amount

[00:14:57] of specialized needs or requirements.

[00:14:59] Some cases are going to be because of the vertical.

[00:15:01] Some cases are going to be

[00:15:02] because they're technical debt.

[00:15:03] Some cases it's going to be

[00:15:04] because of the way they go to market,

[00:15:05] so on and so forth.

[00:15:07] We already know that.

[00:15:09] Okay.

[00:15:10] So at the end of the day,

[00:15:11] you could basically sit back

[00:15:12] and boy, this is an arbitrary term

[00:15:14] or an arbitrary number.

[00:15:15] You could sit back and say,

[00:15:17] I've got my 50 clients here.

[00:15:19] Of those 50 clients,

[00:15:21] probably 75% of the goods and services

[00:15:23] that we deliver,

[00:15:24] including the services,

[00:15:25] including the things that we do,

[00:15:26] about 75% are the same

[00:15:28] for every one of those clients.

[00:15:29] So about 25% of them is going to be unique.

[00:15:32] And hopefully the unique...

[00:15:34] So we've got the sandbox,

[00:15:35] so the 75% of it is consistent.

[00:15:37] So the 25%,

[00:15:39] hopefully we're documenting

[00:15:40] and defining the 25%

[00:15:42] that's going to be unique.

[00:15:43] This is going to be unique for these guys

[00:15:45] because they work on a fiscal year

[00:15:47] that starts in June 1st.

[00:15:48] This is going to be unique

[00:15:49] for these guys over here

[00:15:50] because they have to have

[00:15:52] some old Windows XP technology

[00:15:55] because of the nature of the equipment

[00:15:57] that's out on the shop floor.

[00:15:59] These folks are going to be unique

[00:16:00] because they deal

[00:16:02] with a particular automotive vendor

[00:16:04] who is requiring...

[00:16:05] or automotive customer

[00:16:07] that is requiring these things,

[00:16:08] those things,

[00:16:09] all of these kinds of things.

[00:16:10] And as long as we are basically saying,

[00:16:12] okay, what's the cost for us

[00:16:14] to give this uniqueness?

[00:16:17] And our pricing is such

[00:16:19] that we're getting

[00:16:19] an appropriate amount of profit

[00:16:21] and value out of it

[00:16:22] and we can control and manage it,

[00:16:25] which is one of the biggest things

[00:16:27] that we forget about.

[00:16:28] Then I think that

[00:16:29] that is relatively okay.

[00:16:31] What is not okay

[00:16:33] is where you basically have somebody

[00:16:35] who says,

[00:16:36] I want this X number of...

[00:16:38] X dollars of MRR

[00:16:39] and by God,

[00:16:40] I will take on anything

[00:16:42] whatsoever to do

[00:16:43] and to take that on.

[00:16:44] And so we've had situations,

[00:16:46] we had one client

[00:16:47] or one potential client

[00:16:48] that came to us

[00:16:49] and said,

[00:16:49] boy, we saw your co-managed model.

[00:16:53] It's fantastic.

[00:16:54] I'm the IT director.

[00:16:55] I'm the only guy.

[00:16:56] Nobody else knows how to do this.

[00:16:57] I'm looking for someone

[00:16:58] to really manage my infrastructure.

[00:17:00] Cool.

[00:17:01] Absolutely wonderful.

[00:17:02] Thank you.

[00:17:03] Bringing us in.

[00:17:04] Let's talk.

[00:17:04] Let's take a look at it.

[00:17:05] It was the most God-awful thing

[00:17:07] I ever saw in my life.

[00:17:10] It was jury-rigged

[00:17:11] and it worked

[00:17:12] and it worked well.

[00:17:14] And if you would have

[00:17:15] looked at it cross-eyed,

[00:17:16] it would have burst into flames.

[00:17:19] But the guy did a great job.

[00:17:20] I mean,

[00:17:21] self-taught,

[00:17:22] Google was his friend,

[00:17:24] did all that

[00:17:24] and he wanted us

[00:17:25] to manage and maintain that.

[00:17:28] Okay.

[00:17:29] And to which we looked at it

[00:17:30] and we can't do it.

[00:17:32] There's no way.

[00:17:33] And I explained it.

[00:17:34] I said,

[00:17:34] look,

[00:17:34] we need to make a profit.

[00:17:35] We need to make value.

[00:17:36] I can't have

[00:17:38] my team learn

[00:17:40] many wrong ways

[00:17:41] of doing things

[00:17:42] so that we can provide you

[00:17:44] with a service

[00:17:46] so that we can manage things

[00:17:48] if they go poorly.

[00:17:49] So,

[00:17:50] let's work on a plan

[00:17:52] to modernize

[00:17:53] and to put it

[00:17:54] best structured.

[00:17:55] He didn't want to hear that.

[00:17:56] It was very polite,

[00:17:57] all that.

[00:17:58] But,

[00:17:58] so,

[00:17:59] we knew at that point

[00:18:01] had to cross,

[00:18:02] we had to say goodbye.

[00:18:04] We had to part ways

[00:18:04] because we wanted to avoid

[00:18:06] exactly the trap

[00:18:07] that you're talking about.

[00:18:08] So,

[00:18:09] you need to manage

[00:18:10] that,

[00:18:10] that how do we,

[00:18:12] and I don't want to call it compromise,

[00:18:13] but how do we work

[00:18:14] on making sure

[00:18:15] that this,

[00:18:15] that this relationship

[00:18:17] is going to work best?

[00:18:19] And,

[00:18:19] at the end of the day,

[00:18:20] it's not about,

[00:18:22] in terms of the client expectations

[00:18:24] that the client needs,

[00:18:25] it's not about

[00:18:27] which tool did we use?

[00:18:28] It's not about

[00:18:29] which service

[00:18:30] did they get or not,

[00:18:31] it's about what happened.

[00:18:33] What is the,

[00:18:34] what is the client doing

[00:18:35] and what's improving

[00:18:36] their delivery

[00:18:37] of their goods and services?

[00:18:38] So,

[00:18:39] one of the things

[00:18:40] that we've often had

[00:18:41] in a co-manage

[00:18:42] was,

[00:18:43] they had just bought

[00:18:45] a three-year

[00:18:46] endpoint license

[00:18:48] subscription

[00:18:48] a year earlier.

[00:18:50] So,

[00:18:50] they still had 24 months left

[00:18:52] on the subscription.

[00:18:54] And,

[00:18:56] yeah,

[00:18:57] our tool

[00:18:57] or our proposal

[00:18:58] included

[00:19:00] endpoint protection.

[00:19:01] So,

[00:19:02] what I did

[00:19:02] in this particular case

[00:19:04] and I'm not saying

[00:19:04] this will work

[00:19:05] for everybody

[00:19:05] or for all circumstances,

[00:19:07] I said,

[00:19:07] well,

[00:19:07] show me the invoice

[00:19:09] and what I will do

[00:19:10] is I will give you

[00:19:10] a credit

[00:19:11] for 50%

[00:19:12] of the price

[00:19:12] you paid

[00:19:14] per month

[00:19:15] for the remainder.

[00:19:17] But,

[00:19:17] it'll be a credit

[00:19:18] for,

[00:19:19] on a monthly basis

[00:19:20] for those 24 months

[00:19:21] and then the price

[00:19:22] goes up normally.

[00:19:23] That way,

[00:19:24] I'm taking on

[00:19:25] some of the cost

[00:19:28] you're taking

[00:19:28] on some of the cost

[00:19:30] but we're going

[00:19:31] to end up

[00:19:31] using the tools

[00:19:32] that I know

[00:19:32] and love.

[00:19:34] They loved it.

[00:19:35] I love

[00:19:37] how simple

[00:19:37] that is

[00:19:38] because I feel

[00:19:39] like

[00:19:40] the example

[00:19:41] you gave

[00:19:41] is exactly

[00:19:42] the one

[00:19:42] that I hear

[00:19:42] the most often.

[00:19:43] You know,

[00:19:44] I came in

[00:19:44] and they just

[00:19:45] bought this firewall

[00:19:46] or they just

[00:19:47] bought the MDR

[00:19:48] or,

[00:19:49] you know,

[00:19:50] outside the security.

[00:19:51] They just bought

[00:19:51] this whatever,

[00:19:52] insert this tool

[00:19:53] and so now

[00:19:54] I've got to

[00:19:54] manage their tool

[00:19:55] and it seems

[00:19:57] so much

[00:19:58] more elegant

[00:19:59] to give a

[00:20:00] credit

[00:20:01] over time

[00:20:03] and kind of

[00:20:04] work with them

[00:20:04] and then you still

[00:20:06] get to standardize

[00:20:07] on the tools

[00:20:08] that everybody

[00:20:08] has had to work.

[00:20:09] They're not buying

[00:20:09] your MDR.

[00:20:11] They're buying

[00:20:12] the results

[00:20:13] of an MDR

[00:20:14] service

[00:20:15] that is properly

[00:20:16] managed

[00:20:17] and maintained

[00:20:19] and it's one

[00:20:20] of those

[00:20:20] where

[00:20:21] to take this

[00:20:22] to the logical

[00:20:23] extreme,

[00:20:24] there's two ways

[00:20:25] you could do

[00:20:25] the credit.

[00:20:26] You could either

[00:20:26] do the credit

[00:20:27] the entirety

[00:20:28] of what they

[00:20:29] paid

[00:20:30] or you could

[00:20:31] do it

[00:20:31] for half

[00:20:33] or you could

[00:20:33] do it

[00:20:33] for a third

[00:20:34] or a quarter

[00:20:34] or whatever

[00:20:35] and again

[00:20:36] we did it

[00:20:37] for half

[00:20:38] of what was

[00:20:39] remaining

[00:20:40] on a monthly

[00:20:41] basis.

[00:20:42] Okay

[00:20:43] and the reason

[00:20:45] we did not

[00:20:45] do the whole

[00:20:46] thing

[00:20:46] was one

[00:20:47] I like money

[00:20:48] I want to

[00:20:49] make some

[00:20:49] money

[00:20:49] and all that

[00:20:49] but the other

[00:20:50] is it's not

[00:20:51] our fault

[00:20:52] you bought it.

[00:20:54] You know

[00:20:54] I want to

[00:20:55] make sure

[00:20:55] I want to

[00:20:56] see I want

[00:20:57] to have

[00:20:57] early tests

[00:20:58] to see

[00:20:59] whether or

[00:20:59] not we're

[00:21:00] going to

[00:21:00] work together

[00:21:00] as a team

[00:21:02] because one

[00:21:02] of the things

[00:21:03] I love to

[00:21:03] do is I

[00:21:03] love to

[00:21:04] have what

[00:21:04] I call

[00:21:05] the value

[00:21:05] conversation.

[00:21:06] I do this

[00:21:06] with whether

[00:21:08] it's managed

[00:21:08] or co-managed

[00:21:09] I'll do it

[00:21:09] with either

[00:21:10] party

[00:21:11] but the

[00:21:11] idea being

[00:21:12] that at

[00:21:14] the end

[00:21:15] of the day

[00:21:15] the client

[00:21:16] both client

[00:21:17] management

[00:21:18] and internal

[00:21:19] IT or just

[00:21:20] client management

[00:21:20] in case of a

[00:21:21] pure MSP

[00:21:22] but every month

[00:21:23] the client

[00:21:24] needs to look

[00:21:24] over the table

[00:21:25] across the table

[00:21:26] and look at me

[00:21:27] and basically

[00:21:27] say you know

[00:21:28] my organization

[00:21:30] is getting

[00:21:31] value

[00:21:32] from our

[00:21:33] relationship

[00:21:34] with simplex

[00:21:34] IT

[00:21:35] sufficient

[00:21:36] it's worth

[00:21:37] the money

[00:21:37] we're paying

[00:21:38] for you guys

[00:21:38] yay

[00:21:40] but

[00:21:40] it also has to be

[00:21:42] I have to look

[00:21:43] across the table

[00:21:44] and go

[00:21:44] you know

[00:21:45] I'm getting

[00:21:46] profit from

[00:21:46] the money

[00:21:47] you're paying

[00:21:47] me

[00:21:48] sufficient

[00:21:50] that more

[00:21:51] than makes

[00:21:51] up for the

[00:21:52] costs

[00:21:52] both soft

[00:21:53] and hard

[00:21:54] costs

[00:21:55] of our

[00:21:56] relationship

[00:21:56] yay

[00:21:58] if either

[00:21:58] one of those

[00:21:59] fall apart

[00:22:00] this is a bad

[00:22:01] relationship

[00:22:02] and I want

[00:22:03] to have that

[00:22:03] conversation

[00:22:04] up early

[00:22:06] because at

[00:22:06] the end

[00:22:07] of the day

[00:22:08] there's going

[00:22:09] to be an

[00:22:09] issue

[00:22:10] there's going

[00:22:10] to be a

[00:22:11] circumstance

[00:22:11] or a

[00:22:12] situation

[00:22:12] where

[00:22:13] the client

[00:22:14] the internal

[00:22:14] IT person

[00:22:15] the whatever

[00:22:16] is going

[00:22:16] to come

[00:22:16] back

[00:22:16] and go

[00:22:17] oh boy

[00:22:18] simplex

[00:22:19] IT

[00:22:19] I'm not

[00:22:19] happy

[00:22:20] with you

[00:22:20] guys

[00:22:20] at this

[00:22:21] particular

[00:22:21] moment

[00:22:22] in time

[00:22:22] or where

[00:22:23] I'm going

[00:22:23] to come

[00:22:23] in and say

[00:22:24] hey we're

[00:22:24] going to

[00:22:24] have to

[00:22:25] bill you

[00:22:25] for this

[00:22:25] or whatever

[00:22:27] and I want

[00:22:28] both of

[00:22:28] our party

[00:22:28] to be able

[00:22:29] to go

[00:22:29] hey

[00:22:31] do you

[00:22:32] remember

[00:22:32] that

[00:22:33] conversation

[00:22:33] we had

[00:22:34] back

[00:22:34] in the

[00:22:34] day

[00:22:35] when we

[00:22:36] first started

[00:22:36] we talked

[00:22:36] about the

[00:22:37] value

[00:22:37] this is what

[00:22:38] I'm talking

[00:22:38] about

[00:22:38] and it's

[00:22:39] been very

[00:22:40] helpful

[00:22:40] because

[00:22:41] you know

[00:22:42] that I

[00:22:43] don't want

[00:22:43] a client

[00:22:44] who's going

[00:22:44] to price

[00:22:45] gouge me

[00:22:45] I don't

[00:22:46] want one

[00:22:46] who's going

[00:22:46] to penny

[00:22:47] pinch all

[00:22:47] over the

[00:22:47] bloody place

[00:22:48] and they

[00:22:48] certainly

[00:22:49] don't want

[00:22:49] someone

[00:22:49] who's going

[00:22:50] to be

[00:22:50] you know

[00:22:51] charging

[00:22:51] them every

[00:22:52] other second

[00:22:52] for you

[00:22:53] know surprise

[00:22:53] costs

[00:22:54] and all that

[00:22:55] so some

[00:22:56] of the

[00:22:56] stuff we're

[00:22:56] talking about

[00:22:57] I'm curious

[00:22:58] I feel like

[00:22:58] you approach

[00:22:59] this a little

[00:22:59] differently

[00:23:00] is it

[00:23:01] because the

[00:23:01] different hats

[00:23:02] you wore

[00:23:02] including

[00:23:04] CIO

[00:23:05] before

[00:23:06] starting

[00:23:06] a whole bunch

[00:23:07] of things

[00:23:08] or something

[00:23:08] I mean I

[00:23:08] am

[00:23:09] yeah it

[00:23:10] was I've

[00:23:11] been a CIO

[00:23:12] I've also

[00:23:13] been a

[00:23:13] consultant

[00:23:15] I've done

[00:23:15] about everything

[00:23:16] and I'm

[00:23:16] also very

[00:23:17] big on

[00:23:18] you know

[00:23:19] the game

[00:23:20] theory

[00:23:21] of

[00:23:23] I don't

[00:23:24] believe in

[00:23:24] finite games

[00:23:25] I believe

[00:23:25] in infinite

[00:23:26] games

[00:23:27] the whole

[00:23:28] idea of

[00:23:28] there's only

[00:23:29] a dollar

[00:23:29] on the

[00:23:29] table

[00:23:30] and one

[00:23:31] of us

[00:23:31] is getting

[00:23:32] 51 cents

[00:23:32] and one

[00:23:33] of us

[00:23:33] is getting

[00:23:33] 49 cents

[00:23:34] I don't

[00:23:34] believe that

[00:23:35] I believe

[00:23:36] if there's

[00:23:36] a dollar

[00:23:36] on the

[00:23:37] table

[00:23:37] we can

[00:23:37] make it

[00:23:37] so it's

[00:23:38] a buck

[00:23:38] 50

[00:23:39] and we

[00:23:40] can both

[00:23:40] do well

[00:23:42] and those

[00:23:43] are the kind

[00:23:43] of relationships

[00:23:45] I want to

[00:23:45] have professionally

[00:23:46] those are the

[00:23:46] kind of relationships

[00:23:47] I want to

[00:23:47] have personally

[00:23:48] and those

[00:23:48] are the kind

[00:23:49] of relationships

[00:23:49] that I want

[00:23:50] to have

[00:23:50] from a

[00:23:50] business

[00:23:51] side

[00:23:52] employees

[00:23:53] whatever

[00:23:55] I never

[00:23:55] look at

[00:23:56] things as

[00:23:57] if how can

[00:23:57] I possibly

[00:23:58] win everything

[00:23:59] since you

[00:24:00] started your

[00:24:01] company

[00:24:01] what's one

[00:24:01] of the

[00:24:02] biggest

[00:24:02] fears

[00:24:03] my biggest

[00:24:04] fear has

[00:24:05] always been

[00:24:05] and will

[00:24:06] always be

[00:24:07] commoditization

[00:24:09] that was

[00:24:10] from day

[00:24:10] one

[00:24:10] because you

[00:24:11] can't

[00:24:12] get a

[00:24:13] good

[00:24:14] if

[00:24:15] first

[00:24:16] two

[00:24:16] aspects

[00:24:17] of that

[00:24:18] one

[00:24:18] is

[00:24:19] I've

[00:24:20] said it

[00:24:20] several

[00:24:21] times

[00:24:22] at other

[00:24:22] talks

[00:24:23] and the

[00:24:23] like

[00:24:23] I created

[00:24:24] what's

[00:24:24] called

[00:24:24] Bob's

[00:24:25] Law

[00:24:25] okay

[00:24:26] and Bob's

[00:24:27] Law is

[00:24:28] basically

[00:24:28] that 5%

[00:24:29] of what

[00:24:30] IT

[00:24:30] professionals

[00:24:31] do for

[00:24:32] support

[00:24:33] becomes

[00:24:33] commoditized

[00:24:34] every year

[00:24:35] so 5%

[00:24:36] of the

[00:24:37] stuff that

[00:24:37] our techs

[00:24:38] do is

[00:24:39] going to

[00:24:39] be automated

[00:24:39] 5%

[00:24:40] of what

[00:24:41] our techs

[00:24:41] do is

[00:24:42] going to

[00:24:42] be built

[00:24:42] into

[00:24:43] existing

[00:24:43] products

[00:24:44] 5%

[00:24:45] of what

[00:24:45] we do

[00:24:45] is going

[00:24:46] to be

[00:24:46] made

[00:24:46] so it's

[00:24:46] no longer

[00:24:47] necessary

[00:24:47] so every

[00:24:48] year

[00:24:49] there's

[00:24:49] 5%

[00:24:49] of stuff

[00:24:50] that it's

[00:24:50] going to

[00:24:50] be hard

[00:24:51] for us

[00:24:51] to get

[00:24:51] clients

[00:24:52] to pay

[00:24:52] for it

[00:24:53] or someone

[00:24:54] else

[00:24:54] is going

[00:24:54] to be able

[00:24:54] to do

[00:24:55] it cheaper

[00:24:55] through another

[00:24:56] tool

[00:24:56] and therefore

[00:24:57] they're going

[00:24:57] to be able

[00:24:58] to cut

[00:24:58] their prices

[00:24:58] and I'm

[00:24:59] going to be

[00:24:59] cutting this

[00:25:00] downward spiral

[00:25:03] which you can

[00:25:03] definitely see

[00:25:04] all over the

[00:25:05] bloody place

[00:25:06] but the other

[00:25:07] thing is what I

[00:25:07] call Bob's

[00:25:08] corollary

[00:25:08] there's 5%

[00:25:10] of stuff

[00:25:10] that's added

[00:25:11] every year

[00:25:11] that is

[00:25:12] new value

[00:25:12] that you

[00:25:13] couldn't do

[00:25:13] a year ago

[00:25:14] because the

[00:25:15] tools weren't

[00:25:15] mature enough

[00:25:17] because the

[00:25:19] insights into

[00:25:20] how to make

[00:25:20] this stuff

[00:25:21] work

[00:25:22] wasn't

[00:25:22] good enough

[00:25:23] and the

[00:25:24] thing on

[00:25:25] those

[00:25:25] is that

[00:25:26] the clients

[00:25:27] who are

[00:25:28] interested

[00:25:28] in that

[00:25:28] sort of

[00:25:29] stuff

[00:25:29] will pay

[00:25:31] for that

[00:25:32] because

[00:25:32] those are

[00:25:33] delivering

[00:25:33] new values

[00:25:35] that weren't

[00:25:36] available

[00:25:37] before

[00:25:38] them in a

[00:25:39] much better

[00:25:39] position

[00:25:39] from a

[00:25:41] competition

[00:25:41] standpoint

[00:25:43] so if

[00:25:44] you look

[00:25:44] for

[00:25:44] what is it

[00:25:45] that we're

[00:25:46] looking

[00:25:48] to automate

[00:25:49] or what

[00:25:50] is it

[00:25:50] we're looking

[00:25:51] to do

[00:25:51] that we've

[00:25:52] got a

[00:25:52] better

[00:25:52] standard

[00:25:53] so that

[00:25:53] we can

[00:25:53] do more

[00:25:54] with less

[00:25:55] in terms

[00:25:55] of productivity

[00:25:56] and then

[00:25:56] at the

[00:25:56] other side

[00:25:57] of the

[00:25:57] fence

[00:25:59] what are

[00:26:08] we

[00:26:08] so those

[00:26:09] are two

[00:26:09] things I

[00:26:10] like to

[00:26:10] constantly

[00:26:11] do

[00:26:11] and one

[00:26:12] of the

[00:26:12] things I

[00:26:12] think

[00:26:13] from an

[00:26:13] industry

[00:26:14] standpoint

[00:26:15] MSPs

[00:26:16] don't

[00:26:16] evolve

[00:26:16] well

[00:26:18] so I

[00:26:19] want to

[00:26:19] get to

[00:26:20] that

[00:26:20] but I

[00:26:20] want to

[00:26:20] come back

[00:26:23] how did

[00:26:23] you get

[00:26:23] to the

[00:26:24] 5%

[00:26:26] cuz

[00:26:28] no I

[00:26:28] mean

[00:26:29] I used

[00:26:30] to be

[00:26:30] when I

[00:26:31] was a

[00:26:31] CIO

[00:26:31] it was a

[00:26:32] relatively

[00:26:33] small company

[00:26:33] about 70

[00:26:34] employees

[00:26:35] about 30

[00:26:36] locations

[00:26:36] I had

[00:26:38] technicians

[00:26:38] who had

[00:26:39] to change

[00:26:40] memory

[00:26:40] cards

[00:26:41] who had

[00:26:42] to configure

[00:26:43] memory

[00:26:44] allocations

[00:26:44] who had

[00:26:44] to worry

[00:26:45] about what

[00:26:46] monitor

[00:26:46] what graphic

[00:26:47] cards

[00:26:47] are going

[00:26:48] to be

[00:26:48] used

[00:26:48] who had

[00:26:50] to change

[00:26:50] floppy

[00:26:51] drives

[00:26:51] who had

[00:26:52] to use

[00:26:53] tapes

[00:26:54] and figure

[00:26:55] out

[00:26:55] because they

[00:26:56] had to do

[00:26:57] that

[00:26:57] and every

[00:26:57] year

[00:26:58] as

[00:26:59] technology

[00:27:00] became

[00:27:00] better

[00:27:00] and more

[00:27:01] reasonable

[00:27:02] they had

[00:27:03] to do

[00:27:03] less

[00:27:03] and less

[00:27:04] of that

[00:27:04] stuff

[00:27:04] but there

[00:27:05] was new

[00:27:05] things

[00:27:06] they had

[00:27:06] to worry

[00:27:06] about

[00:27:08] so it's

[00:27:08] nothing

[00:27:10] new

[00:27:12] it's

[00:27:12] interesting

[00:27:12] because I

[00:27:13] think so

[00:27:14] many people

[00:27:15] get obsessed

[00:27:16] over

[00:27:17] let's say

[00:27:18] automation

[00:27:18] and I think

[00:27:19] it's great

[00:27:19] if you can

[00:27:20] drive better

[00:27:21] profit

[00:27:21] right

[00:27:22] but

[00:27:24] they somehow

[00:27:24] miss that

[00:27:25] if

[00:27:26] this tool

[00:27:27] came out

[00:27:28] and I can

[00:27:28] automate

[00:27:29] this amount

[00:27:29] of work

[00:27:30] you're probably

[00:27:31] not the only

[00:27:32] one

[00:27:33] absolutely

[00:27:33] well

[00:27:34] but

[00:27:35] now you

[00:27:36] get into

[00:27:36] a real

[00:27:37] rabbit hole

[00:27:38] so

[00:27:39] you know

[00:27:40] it gets

[00:27:40] back to

[00:27:40] that old

[00:27:41] that old

[00:27:41] joke

[00:27:42] two guys

[00:27:42] are running

[00:27:43] away from

[00:27:43] a bear

[00:27:43] who was

[00:27:44] chasing

[00:27:44] him

[00:27:44] and one

[00:27:45] guy

[00:27:45] looked at

[00:27:46] the other

[00:27:46] and said

[00:27:46] man I don't

[00:27:47] think we can

[00:27:47] outrun the

[00:27:48] bear

[00:27:48] the other

[00:27:49] guy looked

[00:27:49] at the

[00:27:49] other

[00:27:50] first guy

[00:27:50] and said

[00:27:51] I don't

[00:27:51] have to

[00:27:51] outrun

[00:27:52] the bear

[00:27:52] dude

[00:27:54] that's

[00:27:55] right

[00:27:55] you're

[00:27:56] going

[00:27:56] after

[00:27:57] you

[00:27:57] you just

[00:27:58] have to

[00:27:59] do

[00:27:59] better

[00:27:59] than

[00:27:59] your

[00:27:59] competition

[00:28:00] relatively

[00:28:01] speaking

[00:28:02] but that

[00:28:03] makes that

[00:28:04] sound so

[00:28:04] much easier

[00:28:04] but if you

[00:28:05] take a look

[00:28:06] at let's

[00:28:06] say there's

[00:28:06] three MSPs

[00:28:07] MSP number

[00:28:09] one

[00:28:09] I'm standing

[00:28:10] still

[00:28:11] I basically

[00:28:12] got my

[00:28:12] same people

[00:28:13] are doing

[00:28:14] the same

[00:28:14] things we've

[00:28:15] been doing

[00:28:15] in the

[00:28:16] same way

[00:28:17] all of that

[00:28:18] kind of

[00:28:18] fun stuff

[00:28:19] same product

[00:28:20] cool

[00:28:20] great

[00:28:21] easy peasy

[00:28:22] has very

[00:28:23] very little

[00:28:24] investment

[00:28:24] in terms

[00:28:24] of education

[00:28:25] very little

[00:28:26] investment

[00:28:26] in terms

[00:28:26] of new

[00:28:27] tools

[00:28:28] knows

[00:28:28] where he's

[00:28:28] going

[00:28:29] knows

[00:28:29] where he's

[00:28:29] been

[00:28:30] all of that

[00:28:30] kind of

[00:28:30] fun stuff

[00:28:31] so relatively

[00:28:32] speaking

[00:28:33] it sounds

[00:28:34] like paradise

[00:28:34] to me

[00:28:35] now we got

[00:28:36] MSP number

[00:28:37] two

[00:28:37] MSP number

[00:28:38] two is

[00:28:39] I really

[00:28:40] don't want

[00:28:40] to do

[00:28:40] this stuff

[00:28:42] as much

[00:28:42] as we

[00:28:42] used to

[00:28:43] so I'm

[00:28:43] going to

[00:28:43] use tools

[00:28:44] in order

[00:28:45] to do

[00:28:45] the same

[00:28:46] services

[00:28:46] but I'm

[00:28:47] going to

[00:28:47] do them

[00:28:48] much more

[00:28:48] efficient

[00:28:49] okay so

[00:28:50] now this

[00:28:51] person's

[00:28:52] cost of

[00:28:53] tools went

[00:28:53] up a little

[00:28:54] bit

[00:28:54] and some

[00:28:56] education

[00:28:56] and implementation

[00:28:57] costs and all

[00:28:58] that kind of

[00:28:58] fun stuff

[00:28:59] but that

[00:29:00] person can

[00:29:00] either

[00:29:00] A lower

[00:29:02] their tech

[00:29:02] costs

[00:29:03] humans cost

[00:29:04] more than

[00:29:05] anything else

[00:29:06] annoying

[00:29:07] little buggers

[00:29:07] they are

[00:29:08] or can

[00:29:09] bring on

[00:29:10] more clients

[00:29:11] and support

[00:29:11] the same

[00:29:12] either way

[00:29:13] you've got

[00:29:14] MSPA and

[00:29:15] MSPP

[00:29:15] who are

[00:29:16] both

[00:29:16] delivering

[00:29:17] roughly

[00:29:17] speaking

[00:29:18] the same

[00:29:18] goods and

[00:29:18] services

[00:29:20] but MSP

[00:29:22] can do a

[00:29:23] better job

[00:29:23] as far as

[00:29:24] doing it

[00:29:24] cheaper

[00:29:24] now you

[00:29:25] can give

[00:29:26] me the

[00:29:26] we have

[00:29:27] a bigger

[00:29:27] quality

[00:29:28] of

[00:29:30] client

[00:29:31] satisfaction

[00:29:31] we do

[00:29:32] whatever

[00:29:34] bottom line

[00:29:35] is from a

[00:29:35] service delivery

[00:29:36] standpoint

[00:29:37] the first

[00:29:38] one is

[00:29:38] going to

[00:29:39] lose out

[00:29:39] ultimately

[00:29:40] on price

[00:29:41] period

[00:29:41] okay

[00:29:42] now let's

[00:29:43] throw C

[00:29:44] into it

[00:29:44] let's throw

[00:29:45] MSPC

[00:29:45] into it

[00:29:46] MSPC

[00:29:47] is going

[00:29:48] to say

[00:29:48] alright

[00:29:48] I'm going

[00:29:49] to bring

[00:29:51] in those

[00:29:52] equipment

[00:29:53] I'm going

[00:29:53] to bring

[00:29:53] in the

[00:29:54] tools

[00:29:54] that can

[00:29:55] actually

[00:29:55] get rid

[00:29:56] of

[00:29:56] automate

[00:29:56] that 5%

[00:29:57] but I'm

[00:29:58] also going

[00:29:59] to invest

[00:30:00] in some

[00:30:01] of the

[00:30:01] things that

[00:30:01] we haven't

[00:30:02] been able

[00:30:02] to do

[00:30:02] before

[00:30:03] I'm going

[00:30:03] to

[00:30:04] invest

[00:30:07] in AI

[00:30:08] you know

[00:30:10] or

[00:30:11] BI

[00:30:12] or CI

[00:30:13] whatever

[00:30:15] I'm

[00:30:15] basically

[00:30:16] going

[00:30:16] to add

[00:30:17] some

[00:30:17] additional

[00:30:17] services

[00:30:18] that our

[00:30:18] clients

[00:30:19] may not

[00:30:19] even

[00:30:19] know

[00:30:19] they

[00:30:19] could

[00:30:19] use

[00:30:21] and I'm

[00:30:22] going

[00:30:22] to start

[00:30:22] dabbling

[00:30:23] in offering

[00:30:24] that sort

[00:30:24] of thing

[00:30:26] so that

[00:30:27] I can

[00:30:27] basically

[00:30:27] say

[00:30:28] so client

[00:30:29] MSPA

[00:30:29] and MSPB

[00:30:30] are both

[00:30:30] going

[00:30:30] to

[00:30:31] say

[00:30:31] we

[00:30:31] make

[00:30:31] sure

[00:30:32] the

[00:30:32] engines

[00:30:32] run

[00:30:32] on

[00:30:33] time

[00:30:33] we

[00:30:33] make

[00:30:33] sure

[00:30:34] that

[00:30:34] sort

[00:30:34] of

[00:30:34] stuff

[00:30:34] happens

[00:30:35] so on

[00:30:35] and so

[00:30:35] forth

[00:30:36] but I'm

[00:30:36] going

[00:30:37] to say

[00:30:37] what if

[00:30:37] you could

[00:30:38] actually

[00:30:38] cut

[00:30:39] 20%

[00:30:40] of your

[00:30:40] operating

[00:30:41] costs

[00:30:42] because

[00:30:42] you're

[00:30:43] going

[00:30:43] to be

[00:30:43] better

[00:30:43] in terms

[00:30:44] of

[00:30:44] again

[00:30:45] using

[00:30:45] the

[00:30:45] widgets

[00:30:45] as an

[00:30:46] example

[00:30:46] because

[00:30:47] we

[00:30:47] can

[00:30:48] increase

[00:30:48] your

[00:30:49] productivity

[00:30:50] by X

[00:30:51] amount

[00:30:52] however

[00:30:52] you want

[00:30:53] to define

[00:30:53] it

[00:30:53] obviously

[00:30:54] it's

[00:30:55] much

[00:30:55] more

[00:30:55] charming

[00:30:56] than that

[00:30:58] but

[00:30:58] now

[00:31:00] I got

[00:31:01] something

[00:31:01] that they

[00:31:01] don't

[00:31:02] so I

[00:31:03] can

[00:31:03] charge

[00:31:04] more

[00:31:05] for

[00:31:06] that

[00:31:06] new

[00:31:06] service

[00:31:08] and

[00:31:08] A and

[00:31:09] B

[00:31:09] have

[00:31:09] just

[00:31:09] ceased

[00:31:09] to

[00:31:09] become

[00:31:10] competition

[00:31:10] to me

[00:31:13] you can

[00:31:14] charge

[00:31:14] significantly

[00:31:15] more

[00:31:15] you got

[00:31:16] it

[00:31:16] and

[00:31:17] it's

[00:31:17] one of

[00:31:17] those

[00:31:18] where

[00:31:18] I

[00:31:19] just

[00:31:19] think

[00:31:19] from

[00:31:19] an

[00:31:20] MSP

[00:31:20] standpoint

[00:31:21] we

[00:31:22] tend

[00:31:22] to

[00:31:22] think

[00:31:23] in

[00:31:23] A

[00:31:23] and

[00:31:23] B

[00:31:25] we

[00:31:26] tend

[00:31:26] to

[00:31:26] think

[00:31:26] just

[00:31:27] simply

[00:31:27] in

[00:31:27] terms

[00:31:28] of

[00:31:28] how

[00:31:29] are

[00:31:30] we

[00:31:30] doing

[00:31:30] the

[00:31:30] same

[00:31:30] things

[00:31:31] we've

[00:31:31] done

[00:31:31] for

[00:31:31] years

[00:31:32] and

[00:31:32] is

[00:31:32] there

[00:31:32] a

[00:31:32] better

[00:31:33] way

[00:31:33] for

[00:31:33] us

[00:31:33] to

[00:31:33] do

[00:31:33] the

[00:31:34] same

[00:31:34] things

[00:31:34] we've

[00:31:34] done

[00:31:34] for

[00:31:35] years

[00:31:37] why

[00:31:37] is

[00:31:38] that

[00:31:38] because

[00:31:38] we're

[00:31:38] humans

[00:31:40] it

[00:31:41] was

[00:31:41] it

[00:31:41] was

[00:31:42] kind

[00:31:42] of

[00:31:43] funny

[00:31:43] to

[00:31:43] your

[00:31:43] point

[00:31:43] because

[00:31:44] so

[00:31:45] many

[00:31:45] you

[00:31:46] know

[00:31:46] we

[00:31:46] talk

[00:31:47] about

[00:31:47] IT

[00:31:47] and

[00:31:48] we

[00:31:48] are

[00:31:49] arrogant

[00:31:50] sons

[00:31:50] of

[00:31:50] guns

[00:31:52] okay

[00:31:52] because

[00:31:53] IT

[00:31:53] we're

[00:31:54] always

[00:31:54] changing

[00:31:54] we're

[00:31:55] always

[00:31:55] learning

[00:31:55] we're

[00:31:56] always

[00:31:56] evolving

[00:31:56] really

[00:31:58] are

[00:31:58] we

[00:31:59] really

[00:31:59] the

[00:32:00] industry

[00:32:01] is

[00:32:01] but

[00:32:01] are

[00:32:02] we

[00:32:02] as

[00:32:02] individuals

[00:32:03] not

[00:32:03] so

[00:32:04] much

[00:32:05] not

[00:32:05] really

[00:32:06] and

[00:32:07] I'm

[00:32:08] guilty

[00:32:08] of

[00:32:08] it

[00:32:08] you

[00:32:09] know

[00:32:09] my

[00:32:10] phone

[00:32:11] went

[00:32:11] off

[00:32:11] earlier

[00:32:12] my

[00:32:12] phone

[00:32:13] has

[00:32:13] the

[00:32:13] exact

[00:32:13] same

[00:32:14] ringtone

[00:32:14] no matter

[00:32:15] who

[00:32:15] calls

[00:32:15] me

[00:32:15] because

[00:32:16] I

[00:32:16] don't

[00:32:16] know

[00:32:16] how

[00:32:16] to

[00:32:16] change

[00:32:17] it

[00:32:17] and

[00:32:17] I

[00:32:18] don't

[00:32:18] want

[00:32:18] to

[00:32:18] know

[00:32:20] I

[00:32:20] don't

[00:32:20] know

[00:32:20] how

[00:32:21] to

[00:32:21] put

[00:32:21] in

[00:32:21] rules

[00:32:22] or

[00:32:22] I

[00:32:30] but

[00:32:30] it's

[00:32:31] one

[00:32:31] of

[00:32:31] those

[00:32:31] things

[00:32:32] where

[00:32:33] as

[00:32:33] humans

[00:32:34] you

[00:32:34] know

[00:32:34] why

[00:32:35] do

[00:32:35] we

[00:32:35] want

[00:32:35] to

[00:32:35] change

[00:32:35] we're

[00:32:36] willing

[00:32:36] to

[00:32:36] change

[00:32:36] because

[00:32:37] it

[00:32:37] helps

[00:32:37] us

[00:32:38] out

[00:32:38] you

[00:32:38] know

[00:32:39] with

[00:32:39] them

[00:32:39] what's

[00:32:40] in

[00:32:40] it

[00:32:40] for

[00:32:40] me

[00:32:41] but

[00:32:42] it

[00:32:42] also

[00:32:42] will

[00:32:43] fight

[00:32:43] it

[00:32:43] not

[00:32:44] in

[00:32:44] my

[00:32:44] backyard

[00:32:44] will

[00:32:45] fight

[00:32:45] the

[00:32:45] change

[00:32:46] and

[00:32:46] I

[00:32:46] think

[00:32:47] MSPs

[00:32:47] are

[00:32:48] no way

[00:32:48] near

[00:32:49] as

[00:32:50] change

[00:32:51] accepting

[00:32:52] as

[00:32:52] we

[00:33:00] changed

[00:33:00] in

[00:33:01] IT

[00:33:02] and

[00:33:03] those

[00:33:03] are

[00:33:03] big

[00:33:03] data

[00:33:05] security

[00:33:05] and

[00:33:06] AI

[00:33:06] okay

[00:33:07] and

[00:33:08] those

[00:33:08] three

[00:33:08] are

[00:33:09] information

[00:33:10] driven

[00:33:12] tools

[00:33:15] everything

[00:33:15] prior to

[00:33:16] that

[00:33:16] for the

[00:33:17] most

[00:33:17] part

[00:33:17] is

[00:33:17] technology

[00:33:18] driven

[00:33:18] tools

[00:33:19] and

[00:33:20] the

[00:33:20] fact

[00:33:20] that

[00:33:20] we've

[00:33:21] got

[00:33:21] this

[00:33:21] information

[00:33:21] driving

[00:33:22] stuff

[00:33:22] it

[00:33:23] drives

[00:33:23] us

[00:33:24] old

[00:33:24] IT

[00:33:25] people

[00:33:25] nuts

[00:33:25] because

[00:33:26] we

[00:33:26] learned

[00:33:26] technology

[00:33:27] we

[00:33:27] did

[00:33:27] not

[00:33:28] learn

[00:33:28] information

[00:33:28] by

[00:33:30] those

[00:33:30] parts

[00:33:31] and

[00:33:31] so

[00:33:31] I

[00:33:32] think

[00:33:32] that

[00:33:32] a lot

[00:33:33] of

[00:33:33] the

[00:33:33] changes

[00:33:33] that

[00:33:33] have

[00:33:33] happened

[00:33:34] over

[00:33:34] the

[00:33:34] last

[00:33:34] 10

[00:33:34] years

[00:33:34] or

[00:33:35] so

[00:33:35] have

[00:33:35] been

[00:33:35] changed

[00:33:35] have

[00:33:36] been

[00:33:36] changes

[00:33:36] that

[00:33:37] have

[00:33:37] brought

[00:33:37] to

[00:33:37] our

[00:33:38] industry

[00:33:38] and

[00:33:39] a

[00:33:39] majority

[00:33:39] of

[00:33:40] us

[00:33:40] don't

[00:33:40] know

[00:33:40] how

[00:33:41] to

[00:33:41] do

[00:33:41] it

[00:33:41] don't

[00:33:42] know

[00:33:42] how

[00:33:42] to

[00:33:42] deal

[00:33:42] with

[00:33:42] it

[00:33:43] and

[00:33:43] don't

[00:33:43] know

[00:33:43] how

[00:33:43] to

[00:33:43] relate

[00:33:44] it

[00:33:44] to

[00:33:44] clients

[00:33:45] and

[00:33:45] don't

[00:33:45] know

[00:33:46] how

[00:33:46] to

[00:33:46] turn

[00:33:46] that

[00:33:46] into

[00:33:47] product

[00:33:48] you

[00:33:48] were

[00:33:49] asking

[00:33:49] one

[00:33:49] of

[00:33:49] the

[00:33:49] things

[00:33:49] that

[00:33:50] makes

[00:33:50] me

[00:33:51] a

[00:33:51] little

[00:33:51] bit

[00:33:51] different

[00:33:52] you

[00:33:52] know

[00:33:52] one

[00:33:53] of

[00:33:53] the

[00:33:53] last

[00:33:53] things

[00:33:53] I

[00:34:16] list

[00:34:16] is

[00:34:17] long

[00:34:17] of

[00:34:17] what

[00:34:17] makes

[00:34:17] me

[00:34:17] unusual

[00:34:18] but

[00:34:19] it

[00:34:20] was

[00:34:20] one

[00:34:20] of

[00:34:20] those

[00:34:20] where

[00:34:21] and

[00:34:21] it's

[00:34:21] funny

[00:34:22] because

[00:34:23] when

[00:34:23] I

[00:34:23] went

[00:34:23] to

[00:34:24] the

[00:34:24] client

[00:34:24] when

[00:34:25] I

[00:34:25] decided

[00:34:25] to

[00:34:25] start

[00:34:26] simplex

[00:34:26] IT

[00:34:26] and

[00:34:26] I

[00:34:26] said

[00:34:27] we

[00:34:27] got

[00:34:27] to

[00:34:27] find

[00:34:28] somebody

[00:34:28] to

[00:34:28] take

[00:34:28] over

[00:34:29] my

[00:34:29] role

[00:34:30] because

[00:34:30] I

[00:34:30] was

[00:34:30] doing

[00:34:30] about

[00:34:31] 30

[00:34:31] hours

[00:34:31] a week

[00:34:31] or so

[00:34:32] there

[00:34:32] and

[00:34:32] they

[00:34:32] said

[00:34:33] why

[00:34:33] I

[00:34:33] said

[00:34:33] because

[00:34:33] I'm

[00:34:34] starting

[00:34:34] this

[00:34:34] company

[00:34:34] it's

[00:34:35] going

[00:34:35] to

[00:34:35] be

[00:34:35] managed

[00:34:35] services

[00:34:46] no

[00:34:48] you

[00:34:48] don't

[00:34:48] understand

[00:34:49] managed

[00:34:49] services

[00:34:50] that

[00:34:50] has to

[00:34:50] do

[00:34:50] with

[00:34:51] infrastructure

[00:34:51] and

[00:34:51] services

[00:34:52] no

[00:34:52] problem

[00:34:52] sign

[00:34:53] us

[00:34:53] up

[00:34:56] they

[00:34:57] basically

[00:34:57] were

[00:34:58] one

[00:34:58] of

[00:34:58] my

[00:34:58] first

[00:34:58] clients

[00:34:59] we

[00:35:00] figured

[00:35:00] out

[00:35:00] a way

[00:35:01] to

[00:35:01] make

[00:35:01] it

[00:35:01] work

[00:35:01] they're

[00:35:02] still

[00:35:03] with

[00:35:03] us

[00:35:04] 17

[00:35:05] years

[00:35:05] later

[00:35:07] I

[00:35:07] now

[00:35:08] have

[00:35:08] somebody

[00:35:09] else

[00:35:09] who

[00:35:10] do

[00:35:10] the

[00:35:10] database

[00:35:11] stuff

[00:35:11] for

[00:35:11] them

[00:35:14] how

[00:35:14] do

[00:35:15] we

[00:35:15] take

[00:35:16] the

[00:35:16] other

[00:35:16] view

[00:35:16] if

[00:35:17] we're

[00:35:17] looking

[00:35:17] at

[00:35:19] your

[00:35:19] corollary

[00:35:20] Bob

[00:35:21] and

[00:35:22] focusing

[00:35:22] on

[00:35:23] what

[00:35:24] needs

[00:35:24] to

[00:35:24] be

[00:35:24] different

[00:35:24] what

[00:35:25] is

[00:35:26] that

[00:35:26] you're

[00:35:26] focusing

[00:35:27] on

[00:35:27] so

[00:35:41] we're

[00:35:41] right

[00:35:47] what

[00:35:49] what

[00:35:49] what

[00:35:49] basically

[00:35:50] happening

[00:35:50] is

[00:35:50] starting

[00:35:51] in

[00:35:51] 2025

[00:35:53] everybody

[00:35:53] we

[00:35:53] talk

[00:35:54] to

[00:35:54] all

[00:35:54] new

[00:35:54] potential

[00:35:55] clients

[00:35:55] are

[00:35:55] going

[00:35:55] to

[00:35:56] be

[00:35:56] we're

[00:35:56] only

[00:35:56] going

[00:35:56] to

[00:35:56] talk

[00:35:56] model

[00:35:57] 25

[00:35:57] and

[00:35:58] there's

[00:35:58] some

[00:35:58] optional

[00:35:58] stuff

[00:35:59] there's

[00:35:59] some

[00:35:59] that's

[00:35:59] specific

[00:36:00] to

[00:36:00] your

[00:36:16] little

[00:36:16] bit

[00:36:16] better

[00:36:18] and

[00:36:18] like

[00:36:19] last

[00:36:19] year

[00:36:19] we

[00:36:19] went

[00:36:20] from

[00:36:21] EDR

[00:36:22] to

[00:36:22] MDR

[00:36:23] so

[00:36:24] in

[00:36:24] 2024

[00:36:25] we

[00:36:25] started

[00:36:25] just

[00:36:26] going

[00:36:27] you're

[00:36:27] going

[00:36:27] to

[00:36:27] work

[00:36:28] with

[00:36:28] us

[00:36:29] whether

[00:36:29] it be

[00:36:30] co-managed

[00:36:30] your

[00:36:30] pure

[00:36:31] SIMS

[00:36:31] MDR

[00:36:32] is part

[00:36:32] of the

[00:36:32] solution

[00:36:32] that's

[00:36:33] it

[00:36:34] so

[00:36:35] right

[00:36:35] now

[00:36:35] we're

[00:36:35] taking

[00:36:36] a look

[00:36:36] and

[00:36:36] we're

[00:36:36] trying

[00:36:36] to

[00:36:37] figure

[00:36:37] out

[00:36:37] a

[00:36:37] better

[00:36:38] way

[00:36:39] to

[00:36:39] handle

[00:36:40] some

[00:36:40] of

[00:36:40] the

[00:36:46] action

[00:36:46] detect

[00:36:47] and

[00:36:47] respond

[00:36:48] we're

[00:36:49] also

[00:36:49] looking

[00:36:50] at

[00:36:50] some

[00:36:50] you know

[00:36:51] what do

[00:36:51] we do

[00:36:51] with

[00:36:51] Windows

[00:36:51] 10

[00:36:53] things

[00:36:54] along

[00:36:54] those

[00:36:54] lines

[00:36:55] and

[00:36:55] how

[00:36:55] do

[00:36:55] we

[00:36:55] handle

[00:36:55] those

[00:36:55] in

[00:36:55] the

[00:36:56] budgeting

[00:36:57] line

[00:36:57] but

[00:36:57] really

[00:36:57] and

[00:36:58] then

[00:36:58] you

[00:36:58] get

[00:36:58] into

[00:36:58] the

[00:36:58] whole

[00:36:58] what

[00:36:59] do

[00:36:59] we

[00:36:59] do

[00:36:59] with

[00:36:59] AI

[00:37:01] and

[00:37:02] I

[00:37:02] want

[00:37:02] to

[00:37:03] we're

[00:37:03] approaching

[00:37:03] it

[00:37:16] really

[00:37:17] focusing

[00:37:17] on

[00:37:17] copilot

[00:37:18] and

[00:37:19] that's

[00:37:20] because

[00:37:20] that

[00:37:20] is

[00:37:21] so

[00:37:21] inward

[00:37:21] facing

[00:37:22] relatively

[00:37:22] speaking

[00:37:23] in

[00:37:24] terms

[00:37:24] of

[00:37:24] an

[00:37:24] organization's

[00:37:25] data

[00:37:25] both

[00:37:26] structured

[00:37:27] and

[00:37:27] unstructured

[00:37:28] depending

[00:37:28] on how

[00:37:29] you do

[00:37:29] it

[00:37:29] and

[00:37:30] it's

[00:37:30] part

[00:37:30] it's

[00:37:31] integrated

[00:37:31] 365

[00:37:31] and

[00:37:32] it's

[00:37:33] got

[00:37:33] all

[00:37:34] the

[00:37:34] pieces

[00:37:35] parts

[00:37:35] that

[00:37:35] are

[00:37:36] appropriate

[00:37:36] in

[00:37:37] terms

[00:37:37] of

[00:37:37] developing

[00:37:37] a

[00:37:38] solution

[00:37:38] that

[00:37:38] can

[00:37:38] be

[00:37:39] used

[00:37:39] throughout

[00:37:39] an

[00:37:39] organization

[00:37:40] so

[00:37:41] we're

[00:37:41] doing

[00:37:41] some

[00:37:42] internal

[00:37:43] usage

[00:37:43] and

[00:37:44] skills

[00:37:44] development

[00:37:45] and all

[00:37:45] that

[00:37:46] stuff

[00:37:46] because

[00:37:47] we

[00:37:47] think

[00:37:48] AI

[00:37:48] might

[00:37:48] be

[00:37:49] useful

[00:37:49] for

[00:37:50] some

[00:37:50] companies

[00:37:51] not

[00:37:52] sure

[00:37:52] could

[00:37:52] be

[00:37:52] just

[00:37:52] a

[00:37:53] fad

[00:37:55] talk

[00:37:55] to

[00:37:55] my

[00:37:55] friends

[00:37:56] on

[00:37:56] their

[00:37:56] CB

[00:37:56] radios

[00:37:57] and

[00:37:57] they

[00:37:57] said

[00:37:57] it

[00:37:57] would

[00:37:57] be

[00:37:57] good

[00:38:02] so

[00:38:02] how

[00:38:03] do

[00:38:03] you

[00:38:03] approach

[00:38:05] what

[00:38:06] I

[00:38:06] think

[00:38:06] is

[00:38:06] very

[00:38:07] much

[00:38:07] if

[00:38:07] we

[00:38:07] just

[00:38:07] talk

[00:38:08] about

[00:38:08] AI

[00:38:08] for

[00:38:08] a

[00:38:08] second

[00:38:09] either

[00:38:11] unbridled

[00:38:12] optimism

[00:38:12] like

[00:38:13] you

[00:38:48] either

[00:38:50] you

[00:38:51] know

[00:38:51] and

[00:38:51] this

[00:38:52] is

[00:38:52] one

[00:38:52] of

[00:38:52] the

[00:38:53] things

[00:38:53] the

[00:38:53] conversations

[00:38:54] is

[00:38:54] quit

[00:38:54] treating

[00:38:55] whatever

[00:38:56] the

[00:38:56] latest

[00:38:57] revolution

[00:38:57] is

[00:38:58] it's

[00:38:58] not

[00:38:58] the

[00:38:59] last

[00:38:59] revolution

[00:39:00] that's

[00:39:01] not to

[00:39:01] minimize

[00:39:02] it's

[00:39:02] not to

[00:39:02] say

[00:39:02] it's

[00:39:03] not

[00:39:03] important

[00:39:03] or

[00:39:04] it

[00:39:05] isn't

[00:39:05] scary

[00:39:06] or

[00:39:07] awe

[00:39:07] inspiring

[00:39:07] or

[00:39:08] whatever

[00:39:08] but

[00:39:09] it's

[00:39:09] just

[00:39:09] the

[00:39:09] next

[00:39:09] iteration

[00:39:10] and

[00:39:11] we've

[00:39:11] got

[00:39:11] to

[00:39:11] be

[00:39:11] careful

[00:39:12] about

[00:39:12] it

[00:39:13] and

[00:39:13] if

[00:39:14] you

[00:39:14] look

[00:39:14] at

[00:39:14] it

[00:39:15] from

[00:39:15] the

[00:39:15] MSP

[00:39:17] standpoint

[00:39:19] how

[00:39:19] are

[00:39:19] you

[00:39:19] going

[00:39:19] to

[00:39:20] ignore

[00:39:20] it

[00:39:21] I

[00:39:22] mean

[00:39:22] because

[00:39:23] essentially

[00:39:23] it is

[00:39:24] the

[00:39:24] equivalent

[00:39:24] of

[00:39:25] saying

[00:39:26] I'm

[00:39:27] not

[00:39:27] going

[00:39:27] to

[00:39:27] be

[00:39:28] I'm

[00:39:28] not

[00:39:28] going

[00:39:28] to

[00:39:28] assist

[00:39:29] you

[00:39:30] in

[00:39:30] terms

[00:39:31] of

[00:39:31] you

[00:39:32] utilizing

[00:39:32] AI

[00:39:33] to

[00:39:43] interesting

[00:39:43] growth

[00:39:44] strategy

[00:39:46] and

[00:39:48] it's

[00:39:48] almost

[00:39:49] like

[00:39:49] in

[00:39:50] a

[00:39:50] very

[00:39:50] different

[00:39:51] way

[00:39:52] but

[00:39:52] when

[00:39:53] they

[00:39:53] started

[00:39:53] coming

[00:39:54] out

[00:39:54] with

[00:39:54] the

[00:39:55] non

[00:39:57] mechanical

[00:39:57] drives

[00:39:58] a

[00:40:01] lot

[00:40:02] of

[00:40:02] people

[00:40:02] would

[00:40:03] not

[00:40:03] sell

[00:40:03] those

[00:40:05] because

[00:40:05] the

[00:40:05] high

[00:40:05] failure

[00:40:06] rate

[00:40:06] because

[00:40:07] they

[00:40:07] didn't

[00:40:07] work

[00:40:07] because

[00:40:08] of

[00:40:08] this

[00:40:08] that

[00:40:08] or

[00:40:08] the

[00:40:08] other

[00:40:09] thing

[00:40:09] and

[00:40:09] a

[00:40:10] lot

[00:40:10] of

[00:40:10] people

[00:40:10] stayed

[00:40:10] with

[00:40:11] that

[00:40:12] for

[00:40:12] a

[00:40:12] couple

[00:40:12] years

[00:40:14] meanwhile

[00:40:14] the rest

[00:40:15] of us

[00:40:15] are

[00:40:15] just

[00:40:15] selling

[00:40:16] them

[00:40:16] and

[00:40:27] you

[00:40:27] have

[00:40:27] to

[00:40:27] evolve

[00:40:30] or

[00:40:31] you

[00:40:31] are

[00:40:31] going

[00:40:31] to

[00:40:32] become

[00:40:32] even

[00:40:32] more

[00:40:32] of

[00:40:33] a

[00:40:33] commodity

[00:40:33] because

[00:40:33] you

[00:40:34] are

[00:40:34] only

[00:40:34] going

[00:40:34] to

[00:40:34] be

[00:40:34] able

[00:40:35] to

[00:40:35] work

[00:40:35] with

[00:40:35] companies

[00:40:35] that

[00:40:36] don't

[00:40:36] want

[00:40:36] to

[00:40:36] learn

[00:40:36] any

[00:40:36] of

[00:40:36] the

[00:40:37] new

[00:40:37] stuff

[00:40:38] from

[00:40:38] an

[00:40:38] MSP

[00:40:39] perspective

[00:40:39] and

[00:40:40] from

[00:40:40] a

[00:40:40] business

[00:40:41] owner

[00:40:41] standpoint

[00:40:42] if

[00:40:43] you

[00:40:43] don't

[00:40:43] do

[00:40:43] these

[00:40:44] things

[00:40:44] are

[00:40:45] your

[00:40:45] competitors

[00:40:46] doing

[00:40:46] it

[00:40:47] and

[00:40:48] if

[00:40:48] your

[00:40:48] competitors

[00:40:48] are

[00:40:48] doing

[00:40:48] it

[00:40:49] why

[00:40:49] should

[00:40:49] people

[00:40:50] still

[00:40:50] do

[00:40:50] business

[00:40:50] with

[00:40:50] you

[00:40:58] I

[00:40:58] standpoint

[00:40:58] from

[00:40:59] a

[00:40:59] security

[00:41:00] standpoint

[00:41:00] risk

[00:41:03] so

[00:41:04] I

[00:41:04] think

[00:41:05] there

[00:41:05] just

[00:41:05] has

[00:41:05] to

[00:41:05] be

[00:41:05] a

[00:41:05] very

[00:41:06] simple

[00:41:06] forget

[00:41:06] the

[00:41:07] technology

[00:41:07] forget

[00:41:07] whether

[00:41:08] it's

[00:41:09] wonderful

[00:41:09] or

[00:41:09] horrible

[00:41:10] or

[00:41:10] whatever

[00:41:10] but

[00:41:11] from

[00:41:11] a

[00:41:11] business

[00:41:12] development

[00:41:12] and

[00:41:12] a

[00:41:12] business

[00:41:13] management

[00:41:13] standpoint

[00:41:14] if

[00:41:15] you

[00:41:15] don't

[00:41:15] embrace

[00:41:15] at

[00:41:16] least

[00:41:16] the

[00:41:16] need

[00:41:17] to

[00:41:17] understand

[00:41:17] this

[00:41:18] stuff

[00:41:18] how

[00:41:19] are

[00:41:19] you

[00:41:19] going

[00:41:20] to

[00:41:20] stay

[00:41:20] in

[00:41:20] business

[00:41:23] and

[00:41:24] compete

[00:41:24] that's

[00:41:25] right

[00:41:25] how

[00:41:26] do

[00:41:26] you

[00:41:26] approach

[00:41:26] that

[00:41:27] with

[00:41:27] your

[00:41:27] team

[00:41:27] because

[00:41:28] like

[00:41:30] maybe

[00:41:31] we

[00:41:31] don't

[00:41:31] want

[00:41:31] to

[00:41:31] evolve

[00:41:32] but

[00:41:33] there

[00:41:33] is

[00:41:33] this

[00:41:33] you

[00:41:34] know

[00:41:34] whether

[00:41:34] it was

[00:41:35] a

[00:41:35] cloud

[00:41:35] or

[00:41:35] security

[00:41:36] or

[00:41:36] AI

[00:41:37] or

[00:41:37] whatever

[00:41:38] it

[00:41:39] is

[00:41:39] you

[00:41:39] know

[00:41:40] there

[00:41:40] is

[00:41:40] a

[00:41:40] new

[00:41:40] paradigm

[00:41:42] there's

[00:41:42] a

[00:41:42] new

[00:41:43] learning

[00:41:43] which

[00:41:43] why

[00:41:47] I

[00:41:48] really

[00:41:49] hesitate

[00:41:50] from

[00:41:51] calling

[00:41:51] out

[00:41:51] AI

[00:41:52] as

[00:41:53] the

[00:41:53] game

[00:41:54] changer

[00:41:54] it

[00:41:54] is

[00:41:55] because

[00:41:55] it

[00:41:55] is

[00:41:55] an

[00:41:55] amazing

[00:41:56] game

[00:41:56] changer

[00:41:57] just

[00:41:57] like

[00:41:58] all

[00:41:58] the

[00:41:58] other

[00:41:58] game

[00:41:58] changers

[00:42:00] and

[00:42:01] that's

[00:42:01] not

[00:42:01] to

[00:42:01] minimize

[00:42:02] it

[00:42:02] that's

[00:42:02] not

[00:42:02] to

[00:42:02] whatever

[00:42:03] it's

[00:42:03] just

[00:42:04] fine

[00:42:05] there's

[00:42:06] going to

[00:42:06] be another

[00:42:06] one

[00:42:06] two or

[00:42:07] three

[00:42:07] years

[00:42:07] from now

[00:42:07] there's

[00:42:08] going to

[00:42:08] be another

[00:42:08] one

[00:42:09] two or

[00:42:09] three

[00:42:09] years

[00:42:09] after

[00:42:10] that

[00:42:10] it's

[00:42:10] constant

[00:42:11] it's

[00:42:11] change

[00:42:11] I

[00:42:12] get

[00:42:12] it

[00:42:13] I'm

[00:42:13] embracing

[00:42:13] it

[00:42:13] I'm

[00:42:14] learning

[00:42:14] it

[00:42:14] shut

[00:42:15] up

[00:42:16] and

[00:42:17] especially

[00:42:17] the ones

[00:42:18] who are

[00:42:18] just

[00:42:18] vendors

[00:42:18] who are

[00:42:19] positioning

[00:42:19] themselves

[00:42:20] so

[00:42:20] they

[00:42:21] can

[00:42:21] act

[00:42:21] I

[00:42:22] just

[00:42:23] saw

[00:42:23] a

[00:42:23] YouTube

[00:42:23] video

[00:42:23] you

[00:42:24] haven't

[00:42:24] seen

[00:42:24] yet

[00:42:24] I'm

[00:42:25] an

[00:42:25] expert

[00:42:27] but

[00:42:27] I

[00:42:27] think

[00:42:27] number

[00:42:28] one

[00:42:28] is

[00:42:28] are

[00:42:28] you

[00:42:29] hiring

[00:42:29] people

[00:42:29] who

[00:42:29] want

[00:42:29] to

[00:42:29] learn

[00:42:31] and

[00:42:32] I

[00:42:32] get

[00:42:32] back

[00:42:32] to

[00:42:33] I've

[00:42:33] had

[00:42:33] this

[00:42:33] conversation

[00:42:33] several

[00:42:34] times

[00:42:34] with

[00:42:34] folks

[00:42:34] where

[00:42:35] we

[00:42:48] what

[00:42:48] they

[00:42:48] were

[00:42:49] hired

[00:42:49] to

[00:42:49] do

[00:42:50] they

[00:42:50] want

[00:42:50] to

[00:42:51] learn

[00:42:51] and

[00:42:51] develop

[00:42:51] not

[00:42:52] a

[00:42:52] whole

[00:42:52] heck

[00:42:52] of

[00:42:52] a

[00:42:52] lot

[00:42:52] and

[00:42:53] just

[00:42:53] do

[00:42:53] that

[00:42:53] they

[00:42:54] want

[00:42:54] to

[00:42:54] do

[00:42:54] it

[00:42:54] 40

[00:42:54] hours

[00:42:55] a

[00:42:55] week

[00:42:55] go

[00:42:55] home

[00:42:55] and

[00:42:55] have

[00:42:56] a

[00:42:56] great

[00:42:56] life

[00:42:56] those

[00:42:57] people

[00:42:57] are

[00:42:58] fantastic

[00:42:58] they're

[00:42:59] wonderful

[00:42:59] when

[00:43:00] they

[00:43:00] are

[00:43:00] doing

[00:43:00] the

[00:43:01] jobs

[00:43:01] that

[00:43:01] they're

[00:43:01] supposed

[00:43:02] to

[00:43:02] do

[00:43:02] they're

[00:43:02] hired

[00:43:02] to

[00:43:02] do

[00:43:03] they

[00:43:03] enjoy

[00:43:03] it

[00:43:03] they

[00:43:04] don't

[00:43:04] enjoy

[00:43:04] it

[00:43:04] whatever

[00:43:05] they

[00:43:05] doing

[00:43:05] it

[00:43:05] get

[00:43:06] it

[00:43:06] done

[00:43:06] wonderful

[00:43:07] then you

[00:43:08] got

[00:43:08] people

[00:43:08] who

[00:43:08] are

[00:43:08] a

[00:43:08] career

[00:43:10] is

[00:43:10] essentially

[00:43:11] someone

[00:43:11] who

[00:43:12] is

[00:43:12] looking

[00:43:12] to

[00:43:12] advance

[00:43:13] they're

[00:43:13] not

[00:43:13] going

[00:43:13] to

[00:43:13] be

[00:43:14] doing

[00:43:14] the

[00:43:14] same

[00:43:14] thing

[00:43:14] that

[00:43:15] they're

[00:43:15] doing

[00:43:15] today

[00:43:15] in X

[00:43:16] number

[00:43:16] of

[00:43:17] years

[00:43:17] they're

[00:43:17] going

[00:43:17] to

[00:43:18] be

[00:43:18] doing

[00:43:18] things

[00:43:18] differently

[00:43:28] that's

[00:43:28] fine

[00:43:29] we

[00:43:29] need

[00:43:29] people

[00:43:29] like

[00:43:29] that

[00:43:30] we

[00:43:30] need

[00:43:31] people

[00:43:31] who

[00:43:31] are

[00:43:32] looking

[00:43:32] to

[00:43:32] grow

[00:43:32] looking

[00:43:33] to

[00:43:33] adapt

[00:43:33] looking

[00:43:34] to

[00:43:34] do

[00:43:34] all

[00:43:34] these

[00:43:34] things

[00:43:35] and

[00:43:35] the

[00:43:36] problem

[00:43:36] is

[00:43:36] when

[00:43:37] you

[00:43:37] have

[00:43:37] a

[00:43:38] career

[00:43:38] opening

[00:43:38] and

[00:43:38] you

[00:43:39] hire

[00:43:39] a

[00:43:39] job

[00:43:39] person

[00:43:39] for it

[00:43:40] or

[00:43:40] you

[00:43:40] have

[00:43:41] a

[00:43:41] job

[00:43:41] opening

[00:43:41] and

[00:43:41] you

[00:43:42] hire

[00:43:42] a

[00:43:42] career

[00:43:42] person

[00:43:42] for it

[00:43:43] those

[00:43:44] are

[00:43:44] both

[00:43:44] recipes

[00:43:44] for

[00:43:45] disaster

[00:43:46] because

[00:43:47] in

[00:43:47] one

[00:43:47] case

[00:43:48] you're

[00:43:48] trying

[00:43:48] all

[00:43:49] I

[00:43:49] want

[00:43:49] to

[00:43:49] do

[00:43:49] is

[00:43:49] do

[00:43:49] my

[00:43:49] job

[00:43:50] quit

[00:43:50] trying

[00:43:50] to

[00:43:50] put

[00:43:50] all

[00:43:51] this

[00:43:51] new

[00:43:51] stuff

[00:43:51] on

[00:43:52] me

[00:43:52] and

[00:43:52] the

[00:43:52] other

[00:43:52] one

[00:43:53] is

[00:43:53] how

[00:43:53] am

[00:43:54] I

[00:43:54] supposed

[00:43:54] to

[00:43:54] develop

[00:43:54] and

[00:43:55] advance

[00:43:55] my

[00:43:55] career

[00:43:56] if

[00:43:56] you

[00:43:56] don't

[00:43:57] let

[00:43:57] me

[00:43:57] do

[00:43:57] anything

[00:43:58] different

[00:43:59] and

[00:44:00] both

[00:44:00] persons

[00:44:01] will be

[00:44:01] looking

[00:44:01] at the

[00:44:01] other

[00:44:02] going

[00:44:02] man

[00:44:02] you

[00:44:02] have

[00:44:02] the

[00:44:02] dream

[00:44:03] job

[00:44:05] so

[00:44:06] you

[00:44:06] have

[00:44:06] to

[00:44:06] number

[00:44:07] one

[00:44:07] you

[00:44:07] have

[00:44:07] to

[00:44:07] build

[00:44:08] education

[00:44:08] and

[00:44:08] development

[00:44:09] in

[00:44:09] part

[00:44:09] of

[00:44:09] your

[00:44:09] culture

[00:44:10] you

[00:44:11] have

[00:44:11] to

[00:44:11] do

[00:44:11] that

[00:44:12] and

[00:44:12] we

[00:44:12] do

[00:44:12] that

[00:44:12] and

[00:44:13] we've

[00:44:13] done

[00:44:13] it

[00:44:14] better

[00:44:14] and

[00:44:15] worse

[00:44:15] in

[00:44:15] some

[00:44:15] cases

[00:44:16] but

[00:44:17] we

[00:44:17] have

[00:44:17] both

[00:44:18] bonus

[00:44:18] and

[00:44:19] salary

[00:44:19] incentives

[00:44:20] for

[00:44:20] people

[00:44:20] who

[00:44:20] get

[00:44:21] certifications

[00:44:22] we

[00:44:23] send

[00:44:23] people

[00:44:23] away

[00:44:24] for

[00:44:24] training

[00:44:24] usually

[00:44:24] they

[00:44:25] come

[00:44:25] back

[00:44:26] we've

[00:44:27] done

[00:44:27] all

[00:44:27] of those

[00:44:27] kind

[00:44:27] of

[00:44:27] things

[00:44:28] we

[00:44:28] basically

[00:44:28] would

[00:44:28] sit

[00:44:29] back

[00:44:29] and

[00:44:29] say

[00:44:29] all

[00:44:30] right

[00:44:30] what

[00:44:30] are

[00:44:31] we

[00:44:31] looking

[00:44:31] to

[00:44:31] develop

[00:44:33] you

[00:44:33] know

[00:44:33] we

[00:44:33] had

[00:44:34] a

[00:44:34] list

[00:44:34] of

[00:44:34] about

[00:44:34] four

[00:44:34] or

[00:44:35] five

[00:44:35] things

[00:44:35] that

[00:44:35] we

[00:44:35] were

[00:44:35] looking

[00:44:35] to

[00:44:36] develop

[00:44:36] for

[00:44:36] 24-25

[00:44:38] we're

[00:44:38] pushing

[00:44:39] a little

[00:44:39] bit

[00:44:39] things

[00:44:40] around

[00:44:41] some

[00:44:41] of

[00:44:41] them

[00:44:41] are

[00:44:41] looking

[00:44:41] to

[00:44:42] be

[00:44:42] a

[00:44:42] little

[00:44:42] more

[00:44:42] convoluted

[00:44:43] than

[00:44:43] we

[00:44:43] thought

[00:44:43] but

[00:44:44] we've

[00:44:44] always

[00:44:44] got

[00:44:44] a

[00:44:45] list

[00:44:46] business

[00:45:01] owner

[00:45:05] has

[00:45:06] to

[00:45:06] say

[00:45:06] this

[00:45:07] is

[00:45:07] an

[00:45:07] investment

[00:45:08] it's

[00:45:08] worth

[00:45:08] doing

[00:45:09] and

[00:45:10] it's

[00:45:10] funny

[00:45:10] because

[00:45:10] I

[00:45:11] used

[00:45:11] to

[00:45:11] say

[00:45:11] until

[00:45:12] I

[00:45:12] got

[00:45:12] corrected

[00:45:13] I

[00:45:14] don't

[00:45:14] care

[00:45:14] if

[00:45:15] you

[00:45:15] retire

[00:45:15] from

[00:45:16] here

[00:45:16] to

[00:45:17] employees

[00:45:17] I

[00:45:17] said

[00:45:18] that

[00:45:18] fairly

[00:45:18] frequently

[00:45:18] and

[00:45:19] I

[00:45:19] explained

[00:45:20] it

[00:45:20] a

[00:45:20] couple

[00:45:20] of

[00:45:20] times

[00:45:20] but

[00:45:21] apparently

[00:45:21] people

[00:45:21] were

[00:45:21] getting

[00:45:22] the

[00:45:22] wrong

[00:45:22] idea

[00:45:22] they

[00:45:22] were

[00:45:23] thinking

[00:45:24] that

[00:45:24] I

[00:45:24] wanted

[00:45:25] them

[00:45:25] to

[00:45:26] leave

[00:45:27] you

[00:45:27] know

[00:45:27] and

[00:45:28] it

[00:45:28] was

[00:45:28] like

[00:45:28] and

[00:45:29] I

[00:45:29] finally

[00:45:29] apologized

[00:45:29] at

[00:45:30] a

[00:45:31] group

[00:45:31] meeting

[00:45:32] I

[00:45:32] said

[00:45:32] no

[00:45:32] you

[00:45:32] don't

[00:45:33] understand

[00:45:33] I

[00:45:33] want

[00:45:34] you

[00:45:34] to

[00:45:34] grow

[00:45:34] I

[00:45:35] want

[00:45:35] you

[00:45:35] to

[00:45:35] learn

[00:45:35] more

[00:45:36] I

[00:45:36] want

[00:45:36] and

[00:45:37] there's

[00:45:37] a

[00:45:37] risk

[00:45:38] if

[00:45:39] you

[00:45:39] teach

[00:45:40] people

[00:45:40] to

[00:45:40] do

[00:45:41] new

[00:45:41] things

[00:45:42] sometimes

[00:45:42] they'll

[00:45:43] leave

[00:45:43] that's

[00:45:44] okay

[00:45:46] because

[00:45:46] sometimes

[00:45:47] they'll

[00:45:47] stay

[00:45:48] and

[00:45:49] so

[00:45:49] what

[00:45:50] I

[00:45:50] meant

[00:45:50] by

[00:45:50] that

[00:45:51] was

[00:45:51] that

[00:45:51] I

[00:45:52] want

[00:45:52] you

[00:45:52] to

[00:45:52] develop

[00:45:53] I

[00:45:53] want

[00:45:53] you

[00:45:53] to

[00:45:53] grow

[00:45:53] I

[00:45:54] want

[00:45:54] you

[00:45:54] to

[00:45:54] find

[00:45:54] great

[00:45:54] opportunities

[00:45:55] I

[00:46:09] you

[00:46:09] could

[00:46:09] actually

[00:46:09] get

[00:46:09] to

[00:46:10] the

[00:46:10] point

[00:46:10] where

[00:46:10] if

[00:46:10] you

[00:46:10] were

[00:46:11] talking

[00:46:11] about

[00:46:11] going

[00:46:11] back

[00:46:11] to

[00:46:12] those

[00:46:12] three

[00:46:12] MSPs

[00:46:12] we

[00:46:12] were

[00:46:13] talking

[00:46:13] about

[00:46:13] MSP

[00:46:14] number

[00:46:14] one

[00:46:15] wasn't

[00:46:15] developing

[00:46:16] was

[00:46:17] not

[00:46:17] learning

[00:46:17] new

[00:46:17] things

[00:46:18] so

[00:46:19] he

[00:46:19] would

[00:46:19] disagree

[00:46:20] with

[00:46:20] you

[00:46:20] he

[00:46:20] would

[00:46:21] say

[00:46:21] that

[00:46:21] better

[00:46:22] to

[00:46:22] have

[00:46:22] people

[00:46:23] that

[00:46:23] aren't

[00:46:23] looking

[00:46:23] to

[00:46:24] develop

[00:46:24] new

[00:46:24] skills

[00:46:24] because

[00:46:25] the

[00:46:25] minute

[00:46:26] they

[00:46:26] do

[00:46:26] they're

[00:46:26] just

[00:46:26] going

[00:46:26] to

[00:46:27] tell

[00:46:27] me

[00:46:27] how

[00:46:27] to

[00:46:27] run

[00:46:29] my

[00:46:29] company

[00:46:29] differently

[00:46:30] or

[00:46:31] they're

[00:46:31] going

[00:46:31] to

[00:46:31] find

[00:46:32] jobs

[00:46:32] somewhere

[00:46:32] else

[00:46:33] so

[00:46:34] this

[00:46:34] would

[00:46:34] be

[00:46:34] a

[00:46:34] great

[00:46:35] place

[00:46:35] for

[00:46:35] job

[00:46:35] people

[00:46:37] yeah

[00:46:39] yeah

[00:46:41] speaking

[00:46:41] of

[00:46:43] unorthodox

[00:46:44] things

[00:46:44] um

[00:46:45] noticed

[00:46:46] you'd

[00:46:46] created

[00:46:47] like

[00:46:47] four

[00:46:47] or

[00:46:48] five

[00:46:48] hundred

[00:46:48] videos

[00:46:48] over

[00:46:49] the

[00:46:49] last

[00:46:49] three

[00:46:50] years

[00:46:51] yeah

[00:46:52] so

[00:46:52] most

[00:46:52] of

[00:46:52] them

[00:46:53] are

[00:46:54] okay

[00:46:55] for

[00:46:55] kids

[00:46:55] to

[00:46:56] watch

[00:46:59] so

[00:46:59] so

[00:47:00] why

[00:47:00] do

[00:47:01] that

[00:47:01] speaking

[00:47:02] of

[00:47:02] things

[00:47:02] that

[00:47:02] are

[00:47:02] new

[00:47:03] both

[00:47:04] from

[00:47:05] a

[00:47:05] if

[00:47:06] we

[00:47:06] talk

[00:47:06] about

[00:47:07] sales

[00:47:08] and

[00:47:08] marketing

[00:47:08] from

[00:47:08] an

[00:47:09] MSP

[00:47:09] standpoint

[00:47:11] sales

[00:47:12] and

[00:47:12] marketing

[00:47:12] for

[00:47:12] MSPs

[00:47:13] was

[00:47:13] built

[00:47:14] on

[00:47:14] the

[00:47:14] cornerstone

[00:47:15] of

[00:47:16] better

[00:47:16] and

[00:47:16] cheaper

[00:47:16] than

[00:47:16] an

[00:47:17] internal

[00:47:17] person

[00:47:17] that

[00:47:18] that's

[00:47:19] the

[00:47:19] entire

[00:47:19] secret

[00:47:19] of

[00:47:20] the

[00:47:20] sauce

[00:47:20] for

[00:47:21] MSP

[00:47:21] okay

[00:47:22] so

[00:47:23] most

[00:47:23] sales

[00:47:24] and

[00:47:24] marketing

[00:47:24] and

[00:47:24] websites

[00:47:25] for

[00:47:25] MSPs

[00:47:25] and

[00:47:26] it

[00:47:26] still

[00:47:26] is

[00:47:26] true

[00:47:28] we're

[00:47:29] going to

[00:47:29] communicate

[00:47:29] two

[00:47:29] things

[00:47:30] we're

[00:47:30] going to

[00:47:30] communicate

[00:47:30] number

[00:47:31] one

[00:47:31] we are

[00:47:32] so

[00:47:33] cool

[00:47:34] we are

[00:47:35] absolutely

[00:47:35] the

[00:47:35] coolest

[00:47:36] because

[00:47:36] we do

[00:47:37] backups

[00:47:37] we do

[00:47:38] servers

[00:47:39] we do

[00:47:39] cloud

[00:47:40] we do

[00:47:41] security

[00:47:41] you can't

[00:47:43] believe how

[00:47:44] incredibly cool

[00:47:44] we are

[00:47:46] the other

[00:47:47] thing they do

[00:47:47] is if you

[00:47:48] don't use

[00:47:49] our services

[00:47:49] you suck

[00:47:51] or

[00:47:52] you've

[00:47:53] probably

[00:47:53] been

[00:47:53] compromised

[00:47:53] you don't

[00:47:54] even know

[00:47:54] it

[00:47:54] or

[00:47:55] you're

[00:47:56] missing

[00:47:56] out

[00:47:56] because

[00:47:56] you

[00:47:57] are

[00:47:57] paying

[00:47:57] ridiculous

[00:47:57] amounts

[00:47:58] of

[00:47:58] money

[00:47:58] for

[00:47:58] risk

[00:47:59] or

[00:47:59] for

[00:47:59] whatever

[00:48:02] and

[00:48:02] not only

[00:48:03] did that

[00:48:04] not work

[00:48:04] well

[00:48:04] for me

[00:48:05] from

[00:48:05] a

[00:48:06] collaborative

[00:48:06] standpoint

[00:48:07] just talking

[00:48:08] with

[00:48:08] clients

[00:48:08] we want

[00:48:09] to

[00:48:09] work

[00:48:09] with

[00:48:09] because

[00:48:10] the

[00:48:10] value

[00:48:10] proposition

[00:48:11] there is

[00:48:11] none

[00:48:13] but the

[00:48:14] other

[00:48:15] one

[00:48:15] was

[00:48:15] for a

[00:48:16] co-managed

[00:48:17] opportunity

[00:48:18] it was

[00:48:19] horrible

[00:48:20] the

[00:48:21] internal

[00:48:21] person

[00:48:21] goes

[00:48:21] to

[00:48:21] the

[00:48:22] website

[00:48:22] and

[00:48:22] just

[00:48:22] sees

[00:48:22] how

[00:48:23] wonderful

[00:48:24] we

[00:48:24] are

[00:48:24] and

[00:48:25] how

[00:48:25] you

[00:48:25] must

[00:48:26] talk

[00:48:26] without

[00:48:26] using

[00:48:26] our

[00:48:27] services

[00:48:27] and

[00:48:27] the

[00:48:27] internal

[00:48:27] IT

[00:49:21] make them even cooler and more productive and fantastic and all that kind of fun stuff.

[00:49:26] Cool. I just talked about managed services and co-managed services without breaking a sweat,

[00:49:32] without having to make it sound like I'm only talking one way to one group. And I can now talk

[00:49:37] about all the goods and services we're going to deliver, whether I'm talking to co-managed or not.

[00:49:41] So StoryBrand is wonderful for a standardized approach to both pure managed and co-managed

[00:49:48] services. The other thing, and this is more on the marketing side, was, and we've done videos,

[00:49:55] a ton of them for a long time, but there's another concept called TAEA, or They Ask You Answer.

[00:50:02] And They Ask You Answer was invented by a guy who sold swimming pools. And essentially every time

[00:50:09] he would be asked a question by anyone about swimming pools, he would then do a two to three

[00:50:15] minute video that answered the question. And that's it. No sales pitch, no nothing. You know,

[00:50:21] yeah, if you want to know more, reach out to me here, but that's it. And they would be sometimes

[00:50:26] questions that had nothing to do whatsoever with what he was selling. And in some cases it would be,

[00:50:31] why would you not buy the stuff that I'm selling? Okay. That really gets down to the whole,

[00:50:38] I'm adding a value. It really gets down to, you know, a lot of cases, managers or company management,

[00:50:48] we don't understand what the services you're delivering. We want to, we don't understand how

[00:50:53] you're making it better, so on and so forth. And internal IT, a lot of cases internal IT doesn't

[00:50:59] understand this stuff. Okay. Especially in smaller organizations, they're, they're the one or two

[00:51:05] person shop who, who they can't understand everything. So this gives you an opportunity

[00:51:09] to be, you know, trusted business advisor for still using that term. So we can actually say,

[00:51:16] let me explain to you what wifi is. Let me explain to you what DMARC is. Let me explain to you what,

[00:51:21] we usually say, what is DMARC? Let me explain this to you. What is wifi? What is SMS? What is whatever?

[00:51:30] And we just come up with, with relatively simple videos. We've got, why should you use an MSP?

[00:51:36] Why should you not use an MSP? You know, are there other MSPs in Northeast Ohio? We've got a video

[00:51:42] that talks about our competition. Our competition are all horrible, horrible people, but we made it

[00:51:47] sound like they're nice. No, they're actually good. There's always good MSPs anywhere around you and all

[00:51:53] that kind of fun stuff. But, but the bottom line is this puts us in the position so that we can,

[00:51:58] A, we can be that trusted business advisor. We're clearly demonstrating that we're looking to

[00:52:02] communicate. We're looking to share. And when we talk to a co-managed, potential co-managed client,

[00:52:08] we can go to the internal IT person and go, and he says, well, yeah, well, one of the things we

[00:52:12] really have trouble with is MFA. Here, let me send you a video. And we did an MFA, you know,

[00:52:18] and that's worked out very well, both from a differentiating standpoint and also from a

[00:52:23] reinforcement standpoint. So we had a meeting with a manufacturing company that has a couple

[00:52:29] locations, a couple hundred employees, yada, yada, yada. And he was asking questions about

[00:52:33] three or four specific topics. Not only was I able to answer the questions, but I was able to send him

[00:52:38] a link. Here's videos we did on those topics specifically. So we're not just inventing it

[00:52:44] off the top of our heads. We've actually put thought into that.

[00:52:48] What is it about you that helps you understand which of these things like you, they ask you answer

[00:52:56] or other things to adopt or not adopt? I'd say medication, but I'm not on any.

[00:53:04] So first of all, I think I know who we are. Okay. I want to, cause some people will say,

[00:53:17] I want to, I want to bring in as much business as possible. No, I want to bring in as many good

[00:53:24] clients as possible. Good relationships. I want to. Oh, absolutely. Big difference. And I want,

[00:53:33] if this is going to be a bad fit, I want to know this as soon as possible.

[00:53:38] You know, uh, that's why we have, you know, why should you not use an MSP?

[00:53:43] You know, if you're looking for an organization that is going to be 100%, uh, you know, we're going

[00:53:49] to go in suit and ties. We're going to absolutely be the cleanest, perfect, everything is nailed down,

[00:53:55] so on and so forth. Uh, we're not it. Okay. Uh, if you're looking for an organization that is going

[00:54:03] to be, uh, is going to be very, very strict in terms of how we do things for things that you

[00:54:10] don't really need to be strict about, we're not it. Uh, if you're going to be looking for people who,

[00:54:15] you know, for relationships that are, that are basically not this to a certain degree,

[00:54:21] that it's a bad fit and let's, let's figure that out and move forward. If you're going,

[00:54:26] if you're going to be, uh, adverse to, uh, minimizing your technical debt and you want to milk

[00:54:32] every penny you can out of every box you've got with blinking lights, we're not a good fit.

[00:54:37] You know, if you're going to be very, very budget conscious, uh, and you're okay with lots

[00:54:42] of downtime, not a good fit. Uh, so I want to basically as much as possible have that. Um,

[00:54:52] so, so that's, that's part number one. So when we look at new technologies, new opportunities,

[00:54:58] that's part of my question is, is first of all, does that represent who we are?

[00:55:03] Uh, the other, the other thing is, is does my management team agree?

[00:55:09] You know, cause I can tell you right now, there have been, I can think of two or three things this

[00:55:13] year alone where I thought it was a brilliant freaking idea. Uh, but my hoity toity management

[00:55:21] team did, they're jerks, but they were right. Yeah. It happens from John to Tom being a visionary.

[00:55:29] Well, but it, or, or a man suffering under hallucination. We can kind of go either way on

[00:55:34] that, but yeah, you're right. You know, from, from that visionary thing, don't mean you're

[00:55:38] right. Uh, and, and it's, it's one of those where, so we're trying to create as good of a

[00:55:45] culture as possible. So we can have the open feedback going between everybody. And I'll be

[00:55:51] honest, we, we've had over the past year or so, we've had some significant personnel changes where

[00:55:57] we thought our culture was more online. It turns out it wasn't as good as we thought it was. And, uh,

[00:56:02] it's been very painful over the past year, making what we think are the changes, but I think we've

[00:56:07] got a much better idea of where we're at now. I appreciate that candor. Uh, I want to switch

[00:56:17] gears for a moment and, uh, ask what's the, what's the biggest lesson in all your years in business?

[00:56:24] It's all small shit. I mean, one of the things, and I don't mean that to minimize anything

[00:56:31] anybody's going through, but, uh, and this is going to sound somewhat politically incorrect.

[00:56:39] Um, but that doesn't stop me too much, but I am a older white heterosexual relatively healthy male,

[00:56:50] uh, who was born and raised in a middle-class family. Uh, I've never had to worry about where

[00:56:57] a meal was coming from. I've never had to worry about whether or not I had a roof over my

[00:57:01] head. I never had to worry about whether someone was going to kill me or not. My wife sometimes

[00:57:06] being the exception, uh, you know, it's, it's one of those where there are days where I will just

[00:57:14] feel sorry for myself because of all the trials and tribulations. And then I think about it for a

[00:57:19] second. It's like, it's really annoying, but I've known so many people who have gone through so much

[00:57:23] more crap than I have. And they make it very hard for me to feel sorry for myself, which is why I hate

[00:57:30] them. No, but it's one of those where no matter what it, and, and that includes if, if my company

[00:57:38] ever goes under, it goes under. Do I want it to happen? No. Do I expect it to happen? No. Uh, but it's

[00:57:44] one of those where in the grand scheme of things, it's small shit. Not very inspirational, but you know,

[00:57:57] no, I think it's, it's good because it seems like a mountain when I'm going through it. Absolutely.

[00:58:03] And then later it's a molehill. Yeah. And, uh, it's really not that big of a deal. Um, but it is

[00:58:09] when it's the only thing I can think about. Absolutely. And I go through that too. I mean,

[00:58:14] believe me, I do not have any magic wand or potion or anything along those lines. Um, but it's one of

[00:58:20] those, like there's a, uh, there was a friend of mine who passed away about 10 years or so ago.

[00:58:24] Won't go into all the details. The guy had more physical ailments and challenges than any other

[00:58:30] person I know, but he never let it bug him. Never let it get him down. Never let it, he was annoying

[00:58:36] as all get out. I mean, just so positive and the like. Um, and, uh, I, I, he passed away again about

[00:58:44] 10 years ago or so. And I still keep the program from his funeral in one of my coat pockets.

[00:58:49] And just once in a while, just, you know, kind of pull it out to remind me why he annoyed me so

[00:58:56] much. Like he's being so positive. Really a jerk. Right. If there's one thing you could do

[00:59:08] differently or do over, what would that be? You know, it's funny because it really depends on

[00:59:17] which part of my brain you ask. You know, uh, I started this company in 2007. That would have been

[00:59:25] at 40, the age of 49. Okay. If I was smart, never claimed to be, I would have started at about 10

[00:59:33] years earlier. Um, I think had I done that, I would have been in a much better position.

[00:59:39] That said, I also would not have learned a lot of things that I learned in those 10 years. So who's

[00:59:45] to say? Um, yeah, I hate those kinds of questions because, you know, if I would have done something

[00:59:53] differently, I could have been squashed by a car 10 seconds later. So it's, it's, I, I,

[01:00:01] I accept my, my current multiverse iteration, uh, gladly.

[01:00:07] What's something about our industry, a myth or something like that that you'd love to,

[01:00:12] to bust or debunk?

[01:00:14] So there's an author by the name of Harlan Ellison, uh, he's a science fiction author

[01:00:20] and he wrote, actually he was an author all over the bloody place, including science fiction.

[01:00:25] Um, and he turns out, I didn't realize that when I was first reading him, but he went to my high

[01:00:31] school, Cleveland Heights High School, albeit like 20 years earlier, on the fifties. And he always wrote

[01:00:37] really fascinating introductions to his books. They were almost better than his stories. And he,

[01:00:42] and one of my favorite introductions that he wrote was, and I think this summarizes where I think the

[01:00:49] industry is right now, uh, revealed at last what really killed the dinosaurs and you don't look so

[01:00:54] hot yourself. And I, that, that statement just sums up in my opinion, where the industry is.

[01:01:05] Uh, and what he was talking about was the dumbing down of America because of television. And this was

[01:01:11] back again, this is back in the seventies. And I think to a certain degree, and what he said revealed

[01:01:17] it last week really killed the dinosaurs. You don't look hot yourself is he said, lack of imagination,

[01:01:22] the dinosaur. This was before the whole asteroid thing was a, an accepted, um, theory and the like,

[01:01:30] but it was basically saying that, that whatever brought the changes on the dinosaurs didn't have

[01:01:35] the imagination to adapt. They didn't have the imagination to, to improvise their way through

[01:01:40] things and yada, yada, yada. And honestly, I think the MSP industry has with, with exceptions,

[01:01:49] has the, some of the same challenges. Uh, I think that we are right now, we are all

[01:01:56] piling onto security. I mean, I'm sorry, we're piling onto AI. I'm sorry, we're piling up, but you

[01:02:03] know, there, there is that whole, we have to do this. We have to, but we're not piling onto the,

[01:02:09] we really have to get used to the fact that we are, have to evolve. And we have to continuously

[01:02:15] evolve. And when we talk about a majority, overwhelming majority of MSPs are under a

[01:02:20] million dollars in revenue. And an overwhelming majority of MSPs are probably not technically

[01:02:27] what most people would call MSPs. You know, they've got a few clients and they're doing mostly

[01:02:31] break, fix, so on and so forth. And so you've got an industry that is stuck in on one side of the

[01:02:37] fence that you've got the vendors who will promote these goods and services that are so wildly out

[01:02:44] of reach, both from the MSP standpoint and from their client-based standpoint. And then at the same

[01:02:51] time, you've also got these MSPs who are so denying the fact that they are very close to being

[01:03:02] the dinosaur, you know? And, and it's okay if they understand that. I mean, because there's,

[01:03:10] there's a bunch of MSPs who are like, Hey dude, this is, I'm just doing this to make a buck.

[01:03:15] And again, job versus career. Uh, and so I'm providing the goods and services that my clients

[01:03:21] are willing to pay. They don't have the budget for some of that big ticket item stuff. They're,

[01:03:25] they've only got like six computers. They've only got whatever. Hey, bless you. Have a ball.

[01:03:30] Um, but I don't think we're open enough and honest enough, both with ourselves, with the industry,

[01:03:37] with our peers, uh, to maturely discuss these kinds of things, if you will.

[01:03:45] Well, what's that question we need to be asking ourselves?

[01:03:49] What are you willing to, what are you doing to make sure you're evolving?

[01:03:56] Hmm. And to me, it gets down to that. And if your answer is we're implementing AI, no,

[01:04:03] that's a transaction. That is a single, what are you doing for the next thing? What are you doing to

[01:04:07] make sure that you're, you're, you're constantly evolving, that you're constantly growing and all

[01:04:14] that. And, and I don't mean, I don't even mean growing as in terms of employees or clients or whatever,

[01:04:21] but that it is very different in 2024 than it was in 2020, than it was in 2020 or 2026 or 2016 or

[01:04:29] whatever. Uh, so too should your goods and services that you're delivering. How do you make sure,

[01:04:36] how do you evolve where you just listen to the vendors? You know, you'll notice that when,

[01:04:41] if you go to an MSP conference, all they're talking about is the product that are products that are

[01:04:47] being sold. They're not talking about the evolution of, of the organizations. They're not talking

[01:04:53] about the development of strategies above and beyond it. I mean, occasionally you'll get somebody

[01:04:57] say, yeah, you should implement EOS. You should do things along those lines. That's great, but not

[01:05:01] much beyond that. What's the number one book you would recommend? I wouldn't. And I guess here,

[01:05:09] here's the reason why, because I hate those kinds of questions. Uh, and the reason being is because

[01:05:14] it is entirely dependent upon the positioning of the individual. You know, if you, if you're talking

[01:05:19] about someone who is working on business development, you know, it would be this book.

[01:05:24] If you're talking about someone who was working on personal development, it would be this book,

[01:05:28] you know, this, that, or the other thing. Uh, one of my favorite books, now that said,

[01:05:32] I'll recommend a book. Um, one of the books that I think, I would love to see this woman

[01:05:38] at an MSP conference speak, because I think she would be absolutely brilliant. Um, and, uh,

[01:05:45] it's a woman by the name of Annie Dukes, who is a retired professional poker player.

[01:05:51] And she's written a couple of books. And the first one that I read, which absolutely wonderful

[01:05:56] is thinking in bets. And her, her concept is very simple that, you know, so many people will talk

[01:06:02] about business strategy or personal development strategy or whatever as a game of chess.

[01:06:07] And she goes, okay, chess, there is a finite number of pieces. There's a finite number of moves.

[01:06:12] You have one opponent. Uh, there is a goal and anything else, as long as you get the goal,

[01:06:18] anything else is doable, so on and so forth. And so there's only a finite number of strategies.

[01:06:24] You know, there's no randomness or anything like that. And that ain't the way life works.

[01:06:30] That's not the way business work. There's always a sense of, uh, probability. There's always

[01:06:36] a sense of, of unknown. And her point is that it's more thinking in terms of poker.

[01:06:43] And I'm not a poker player. Uh, but the idea of that probabilities play a huge part of life,

[01:06:53] both good and bad. And she was basically saying that you could go in and do everything perfect.

[01:06:59] Use the best strategies, the best tools, the best process, best everything, and you'll fail.

[01:07:06] Similarly, you can go in and wing it and totally do the dumbest things on the planet,

[01:07:11] the whatever, and succeed. And guess what? You might know, not know which one you were.

[01:07:18] And that's life. And I think there are some people who have succeeded remarkably well,

[01:07:27] more because of probability. And some people who have failed horribly, primarily because of probability.

[01:07:37] Interesting view. Yeah, really interesting. And unfortunately, some people wrote the book on how to succeed.

[01:07:43] The probability is unangled.

[01:07:45] That's one of the things why I hate books and I hate services that essentially will say,

[01:07:50] this worked for me, it'll work for you. Maybe not.

[01:07:54] You know, and I, I'm, I don't care for those. And I recognize they're selling, yes,

[01:08:01] they're trying to do a self-help book, but they're selling the book, they're selling the sermon,

[01:08:05] they're selling the mentality. And the only way you can do that is by you basically over promise

[01:08:09] what it's going to deliver and like, but the bottom line is, some of us have to be, uh,

[01:08:15] very tactical in terms of what we do. Some of us have to be very strategic in terms of what we do.

[01:08:19] Some of us learn better through audio, some better through reading, some people better by doing,

[01:08:25] whatever. And, and one of the biggest challenges is you have to figure out what are the best ways

[01:08:30] for you to learn and try to guide it so that those are the resources that you consume when you're

[01:08:38] trying to learn something. And similarly, you also have to be able to say, these are the things I'm

[01:08:43] not good at. And make sure that you surround yourself with people who are good at that.

[01:08:49] And that you recognize the fact that they're good at it and you're not, you know, because I think

[01:08:55] there's a lot of people who are basically, you know, I'm not, I'm not a procedures guy,

[01:08:59] not my strength at all. My COO, she loves procedures. She's very annoying.

[01:09:07] And, uh, my managed service director also, the two of them are very much into the whole,

[01:09:13] let's develop and document the procedures and doing all that kind of fun stuff.

[01:09:16] And they are the ones who are telling me when I'm trying to suggest stupid visionary things.

[01:09:22] And I have to recognize the fact that they're right because of the strengths that they're bringing.

[01:09:28] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We all have our strengths. I feel like I could talk to you all afternoon,

[01:09:35] probably not the best use of our, of your time though, Bob, uh, for folks that are listening,

[01:09:41] if you're open for them to connect with you or find you, how would they go to the company site,

[01:09:47] simplex dash it.com. Uh, and you can also connect on me on LinkedIn or connect with me on LinkedIn,

[01:09:52] uh, Bob or Robert Coppage. Amazing. This was truly a gift. I really,

[01:09:57] really appreciate you, Bob and your candor as always, but this was just an amazing gift to me.

[01:10:02] And, uh, thank you for being on MSP.

[01:10:04] My turn.

[01:10:04] My turn.

[01:10:05] My turn.

[01:10:05] On the gift. You're stuck with it, dude.