Winning at Social Media Marketing with Heather Margolis

[00:00:01] Welcome to Win with Richardson and Richardson. What's important now? Success in business most often comes down to hard work, not by silver bullets and quick fixes. It's knowing where to focus that hard work that's key to winning.

[00:00:15] Join sales prospecting expert and three times seven figure business founder, Carrie Richardson and managing partner of R&R Consulting and former owner of Doberman Technologies, Ian Richardson for radical honesty regarding strategic planning, accountability and execution that will get you the systematic results you're working toward. Let's get into today's episode. Thought Leader and your host, Carrie Richardson.

[00:00:55] Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the WIN podcast. My name is Carrie Richardson. I am a partner at Fox and Crow Group. And with me today is Heather Margolis, who is the founder of Channel Maven. Heather, how are you doing today? Great. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, it's a pleasure. It's nice catching up. It's been a little while. Yeah. I understand there was some very interesting things that happened with Channel Maven over the last three years. So why don't we dig into how you started Channel Maven?

[00:01:22] Sure. So first of all, fourth generation entrepreneur at six years old, someone said to me, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I said very confidently, the boss. So it was kind of just a matter of time before I started something. And in late 2008, early 2009, like so many people, I was laid off.

[00:01:44] And I remember sort of like merging home thinking, I am not going to interview. I'm going to this is my opportunity to start a company. So I had just over $3,000 in the bank. I was, you know, 31, had just bought a house and took 2000 of that bought a MacBook Pro and went to work.

[00:02:04] I started blogging. I started posting on LinkedIn, which a lot of people weren't really doing yet and sold the loft that my then husband and I were living in, sold one of our two cars, moved into a doll of an apartment and just made it work. I think I met you at an Enable event where they were like giving out awards for somebody that tweeted the most.

[00:02:27] That was the first time that I saw Channel Maven online. And I've seen you a lot of times since. So was Channel Maven the first business that you started? Yeah, I started an event planning business when I was in grad school, but I don't count that. It wasn't a true enterprise. I was working a full-time job at the time and in grad school.

[00:02:48] So, but yeah, Channel Maven was my first go at it. We started early 2009 and grew it to over 3 million and then sold it in 2021. I also, which I don't suggest, started a software company in 2019. At the time, I thought it was a SaaS platform. I now know it was a feature that should have just been added to another SaaS platform.

[00:03:11] But we launched three weeks before COVID hit. So all of the funding that we were going for, all of the budget that we had been told was earmarked for us, sort of dried up. We still did well, you know, a small SaaS platform just coming out. But really, I went to get that sold. I was like, all right, I'm done. I want to go back to just managing Channel Maven and that team. And I'm done managing two companies.

[00:03:38] Was approached by several suitors who were like, we want the software and Channel Maven and we want you to run marketing. So that's what happened. I heard that there was a lot of women in my network who launched businesses around the 2019-2020 time. And a lot of their funding fell through. It seemed to be a very consistent story throughout that era in our lives.

[00:04:05] And even today, I cannot believe that it is 2025 because we feel like 2020 was like three months ago. Yeah, totally. Like in my mind, the clothes that I bought in 2019 are still going to fit me and they're in my closet and I haven't thrown them away. And not everyone has seen them yet because we haven't been traveling. And for a company that planned events and worked on marketing for vendors, that must have been a very challenging time for you.

[00:04:31] Yeah, you know, we actually in 2020 did quite well because everybody moved to virtual events and virtual speaking and taking all of the budget that they had for their partner summit and their partner advisory council and putting it into content. And so Channel Maven did incredibly well in 2020. Spark Your Channel, which was the platform, did not. And that was OK. I think it was such a great lesson for me.

[00:04:57] The companies that did, we first took friends and family and then there was an investment company out of New Hampshire. I'm originally from Massachusetts who had looked at us, had basically given me a verbal and I called them thinking they were going to pull out. The founder and I had a conversation, one of the founders, and he said, the world's going to go back to normal eventually and we can't stop doing what we're doing. And we believe in you. I was one of their first investments.

[00:05:24] So the name of the company is York.ie. And I was one of their first investments and I was their first exit, which is pretty awesome. That is exciting. Yeah. Tell us if the story is unique, maybe not to some entrepreneurs, but certainly most people don't sell and exit from their business and then decide that they're going to buy their business back. Yeah. Tell us about that experience and how does that kind of transaction work?

[00:05:52] Sure. So I came in to run marketing for the acquirer and it was such a great experience. And I never could have seen myself working for a different company. So the culture at 360 Insights is amazing. My boss and I were very different in our work styles, but I think worked really well together because of that. And let's face it, being a founder, I was going to have a hard time having a boss, right?

[00:06:17] He gave me the freedom to do what I felt I needed to do and also challenged me like, OK, you want to do this? Why? What's going to come out of that? How are we going to replicate that? So that was an amazing experience. At the end of like three years, we both kind of looked around and I said, you hired a bulldozer for what you needed a shovel, right? Like I love being on stage. I love training partners.

[00:06:44] I love training the partner facing teams within a vendor. And I'm totally ham, right? If I'm not on stage at least once a month, I don't feel fulfilled. And the marketing role that was needed there was very much counting MQLs, figuring out conversion rates, managing the BDRs, which I had not done. And it was the timing was perfect.

[00:07:06] They were doing an acquisition that was bringing in a VP of demand gen who had done those things and would rather sit there and stare at data than and figure out what works and what doesn't as opposed to just being on stage. And the timing just worked out perfectly. So they kept the team. The agency still lives within 360 Insights. And I rolled out the consulting part of it, which we had stopped doing. It was interesting to look at the P&L and say, wait a second.

[00:07:34] Why did the revenue from Channel Maven drop so much after the acquisition? And just to realize I was the product, right? Like people were paying for me to speak to their partners, for me to train their internal teams. And when that part went away, we lost that revenue. So we really just split the revenue. They keep the agency and I get to take the consulting piece back. And the name. They wanted to have uniformity across their names, which they should from the branding person.

[00:08:01] But Channel Maven is also a personal thing. So Maven is Yiddish for expert. It was a term used in my childhood so much that it felt like I really needed that to be part of the name. My understanding of the word Maven came from a Malcolm Gladwell book or one of those similar. Maven the models. And talking about how Mavens are connectors and they know everybody and they're able to identify opportunities and connect the people that can make them happen.

[00:08:31] And if you don't have Mavens in your network, you're not going to be nearly as successful because you're not going to have those sparks or catalysts. As you can identify where there is something that maybe you haven't seen or you weren't. Like I have to imagine after this many years in the channel, you pretty much know everyone. Right. Yes, for sure. And I think that totally sums up who I am. I love connecting other people and building relationships, whether or not it benefits me.

[00:09:00] It just is something that I feel fulfillment just having made that connection. So, yes, definitely a Maven. Thrilled to have the name back. So after the second transaction, how did you decide to go forward? Yeah. What were you going to do differently than you did before you exited to 360? Yeah.

[00:09:22] I think the first time around, I was so focused on building a big company and having external motivation. Like I wanted the revenue to be a certain number. I wanted the size of the team to be a certain number. I wanted sort of that external validation. And this time around, I do not need that. Like I want it to be a place that my team and I are excited to work.

[00:09:50] I want it to be a place where we are providing value instead of just like, I can't tell you how many times we would make a campaign in a box that we get loaded to a through channel marketing automation tool and never leveraged. So figuring out ways that we can boost the channel and partnerships and figure out how to ensure that they're driving more revenue because of it. I want to be able to point to something and say we did that.

[00:10:17] For me, it was all about having a really big company and having that name and making sure people were saying good things about us. And this time is just sort of happening naturally. Like I don't need to get validation from somebody else as long as I know I'm doing the right thing. I feel really, really good about it. I really at the end of the day, I look at my bank account balance and that's what tells me whether or not my company's doing well. Yeah. And maybe that's easier with a little bit of money in your bank account and some experience.

[00:10:47] But like if somebody's going off on Reddit about me or Ian or our business or something, I already have the validation that I needed and it's in my bank account. So if you'd like to compare side by side, our income tax returns for the year, keep talking. But other than that, I don't want to hear your feedback. If you're doing better than I am, if your margins are higher than mine and we're in the same space, tell me how you did that. Right. Sure. If you're not. Yeah.

[00:11:17] I don't need you talking in my. Right. I don't even go on Reddit. I don't have a Reddit account anymore. Yeah. You know, I just finished reading Mel Robbins, Let Them. And I knew what the premise was. Of course, you go into it being like if somebody is doing something you disagree with, let them. But the other side of that is if someone's doing something that bothers you, if someone's doing something you don't think is right, just let them.

[00:11:40] Like it's not your problem because it creates stress and raise blood pressure and all of these things that if you could let them do that and let me react to it the way that's more healthy for me. Let me then say, I don't want to have a relationship with that person because I don't agree with what they're doing, but I'm not going to make a big deal of it. I'm just going to go over here. So I think that has really helped me sort of reposition the way.

[00:12:11] People come at you. And honestly, I'm so much happier that I'm not paying attention. Do you think it happens more to women in our space than men? Yeah. Yeah. And I always talk about, you know, I'm on a couple of boards empowering women, especially in technology. And A, it's sad that we need to have that, that we need to remind each other to boost each other up.

[00:12:35] In my early in my career, it was the men that were supporting me and the women that were trying to hold me back. So I'm so glad that we've changed the narrative on that, especially being the mom of two girls. Like, I'm glad that we have identified that as a problem and put more awareness around it. So tell me a little bit about your plan for growth now. You've already grown a business successfully. You're not starting from scratch.

[00:13:04] You have your reputation. And it's a little bit different than having $3,000 in a MacBook. What is the very first thing that you invested in when you relaunched Channel Maven? Yeah, I would say the first thing I invested in was a marketing budget. Like, I just put a budget around hiring someone to help with content and digital ads and display ads.

[00:13:31] And really sort of reinventing the way that I wanted Channel Maven to appear in the market. So lots of referral revenue. Like, I want to tell everyone who they should work with. I want to be referring to the right portals, the right PRMs, the right traditional marketing automation tools, the right consultants for implementation, the right consultants for sales consulting. And really become sort of that trusted advisor. Like, drink the Kool-Aid, right?

[00:14:00] We always talk about solution providers or the trusted advisor. That's what I want to become. And yeah, it's totally different, right? First time around, I was 31 and married to an entrepreneur. So we were both growing the business at the same time. But I didn't know anyone. And no one knew me. So it was going to these events and slogging it out and begging for speaking engagements so that I could get in front of my prospective audience. And also trying to figure out what the product was. Like, somebody would be like, do you do this? And I'd be like, yeah, we totally do that.

[00:14:30] And then I would try to figure out how to do that. And this time around, I'm being much more prescriptive. Like, no, we don't do that. But I know who does. And they're really good at it. But now I'm 47. And I have two young kids. And I'm a single mom. And it's just a different culture. Like, I used to work 18-hour days. I can't do that now. So I need to work smarter.

[00:14:52] And I do that by time blocking and reaching out to the people I know who can help me and offload some of the stuff that I might enjoy. But maybe I'm not the best at or most efficient. So what's your highest and best use thing as your business grows? The things that you love doing and focusing on the things that are going to have the most impact. What does that look like? Yeah. One of the epiphanies I had, I think I mentioned to you, was someone said to me, you're not a marketer.

[00:15:22] You're a salesperson. And I was like, wow, you're right. I sell marketing. And I can teach people how to do marketing. But the piece that gets me off is the sale. And building those relationships and, you know, following through and being really prescriptive. Like, I don't want to sell someone something they don't need because they're never coming back to me. So figuring the problem-solving aspect of that. And then the consulting. So I love creating content. I am very inconsistent.

[00:15:51] People always comment how much they love my TikToks that I then post on LinkedIn. It's hard. It's hard to set aside time for that. Luckily, I have an amazing team that can help me do that because that's not the stuff that I love. I'm trying to post a video every day on LinkedIn right now. And I almost missed it yesterday. So I was like 830. We're watching The Wire. And I was like, oh, I forgot to post a video today. And I've abandoned the idea that I'm going to put makeup on for every piece of content I shoot.

[00:16:20] And I'm going to style my hair. I'm going to pick out a wardrobe. I'm going to light it properly. No, I'm just going to use my Google Pixel, which actually has a very good camera on it. Fire off a couple of minutes of unscripted content and post it. And maybe it'll work. Maybe it won't. It's a new thing for me. Like, I don't watch webinars. I'll take the transcripts. I'll have AI summarize them. And I have like an AI bot that tells me whether or not what I wanted to learn was in there. Like, does this webinar tell me blah, blah, blah? No, I'm not watching that.

[00:16:50] But my friends are in it or I'm like supporters. Of course. I'm famous for listening to things at 2X. So I've been listening to a bunch of business books and played one for a friend of mine. Was like, oh, you have to listen to this part. It's great for your business. She's actually a wedding planner. And I hit play. And she was like, how are you even retaining? Like, it's Alex Ramothi. He talks beyond fast already. And you're listening at 2X.

[00:17:15] So that's something that I feel like I can absorb way more information because I'm listening to it fast and I'm listening to it, not reading it. I have to read to retain. I'm opposite. An AI certification from Vanderbilt right now. Yeah. He speaks so slowly. It's infuriating to me. Even at 2X speed, I'm like, it can't go any faster. So now I was like one. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah.

[00:17:42] But it's been, I mean, it's great that people are considering how the content is going to be consumed now. Like LinkedIn, I guess, is rewarding people for content that can be browsed on a cell phone the way TikTok. Yes. I've never had a TikTok account. I have no idea what TikTok does. People send me TikToks. I can't open them. I assume they're good. But the only reason for TikTok is one, it has a filter.

[00:18:08] So like if I don't have my makeup on, I still feel like I can record no problem. I'm a little more vain apparently than you are. And the other is a timer. So I could talk for 20 minutes, but I shouldn't. It shows me a timer as I'm talking so I know when to stop. But the Supreme Court has a potential ruling that might make TikTok banned in the U.S.

[00:18:34] So I need to go in and download all my content and start creating it somewhere else. Wow. That to be determined. I only ever really I never thought about TikTok as a business tool simply because I never was interested in using it. And I was very interested in my children not using it. My daughter, finally, I have a 25 year old and a 12 year old. And the 12 year old's never been allowed to use TikTok. Yeah. But the 25 year old was really into it for a couple of years.

[00:19:03] And it got to the point where she was doing it to the exclusion of everything else in her world. And she weaned herself. The same as I was kind of addicted to Facebook way back in the day when it came out. And it was so innovative and new. And everybody was posting. And what are my friends doing? And let's see pictures of my kid or my friend's baby. And I left all of those platforms. I don't use Instagram or Facebook mostly because I cannot manage my time while on them.

[00:19:28] I'm on Facebook and then all of a sudden it's been three hours and I haven't made a single phone call and I haven't accomplished anything. So I could never really separate myself from the business applications of those platforms. And I'm sure I'm not the only person that struggled with that. But how is that going to impact people who are marketing business to consumer now? You know, I think I was the person who 15 years ago was saying to the B2B community, you have to start using LinkedIn.

[00:19:56] And everyone was like, I don't need to use LinkedIn or Twitter. LinkedIn has certainly become a very strong B2B tool. I see that now happening for Instagram, especially because of COVID. People's private lives and work lives have sort of intersected. If they're searching on their phone for channel marketing and then they go to Instagram, I want them to find me. As they're scrolling through Instagram, I want them to see my ad.

[00:20:23] Relaying the same thing to a solution provider or an MSP is worth potentially millions to them. Like if they could get in front of the people who are searching for the pain point that they solve, it's pennies compared to advertising on LinkedIn. I'll see something on Instagram. I'll ignore it. And then the next time I'm searching for something, that same company will come up. I'll look into it. I'll see all the reviews and see that they have five stars.

[00:20:50] And then it triggers like I don't know how I know them, but I know that I know them. And it's because I saw it on Instagram. So it's all sort of a groundswell. I wouldn't say only do Instagram or only do display ads or only do Google ads. I think you have to sort of do all of it. But you can do it at a high level. You don't have to spend a ton of money or have, you know, an in-house person. You can outsource a lot of that. I don't. My kids curate for me now.

[00:21:19] It's online. My daughter will send me something that she finds interesting or funny. Reddit, I had to leave because I don't like anonymity buying comments. I found that it just got ugly and weird there. What Facebook became when our parents figured out they could get onto Facebook? Yes. Or for us now, as our children, you know, join LinkedIn. Yeah. Or our people that maybe 10 years ago, you said join LinkedIn, have finally joined.

[00:21:47] And now we're posting about politics and we're posting about our lives. And as you mentioned earlier, we kind of intersected business and personal life now. Where do we go next? What's the next big platform going to be? You know, I would have said TikTok because I see a lot of my, as I said, I use TikTok because I like the format and I like the filtering. I did a ton of comments and likes on there, which surprisingly are from my industry. I would have said TikTok.

[00:22:16] I think we'll have to wait and see X. I don't think anyone's on X anymore. I am seeing... You're calling it X? I don't think I've ever called it X. It's so dumb. Yeah, they call it X. But I'm seeing people on threads, which is the meta version. But I see Instagram definitely increasing in usage and B2B. And then I would say threads next, probably.

[00:22:39] So is it the short, easy to read format or the video, like where, what format's going to be most effective? Certainly video catches people's eye more, right? We're all like, ooh, squirrel, something shiny. But I think as people dig in a little bit more or threads gets to know their preferences more, I'm getting suggested articles and content based on things that I search online, based

[00:23:07] on things that I stop and read. Dwell time is when you're scrolling through, but you pause. You don't click. You don't engage with it. You don't fill out a form, but you paused. People want multiple forms of content. If I'm home and I'm watching TV, I'm simultaneously scrolling Instagram and looking at videos. If I'm in a business meeting and there's downtime, I'm looking at threads because I can't play a video in a meeting. So it just sort of depends on your environment and what you're looking for.

[00:23:38] So from a managed services perspective, if you're an MSP and you're trying to figure out what kind of buying services after seeing a TikTok or scrolling through Instagram, like I just never drew a line between that. What would you highlight? What would you talk about? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:00] So for an MSP, if you are regional or you focus on a specific industry or you have a specific service that you bring to market, doing an Instagram ad, you could say, I want to hit men between the ages of 38 and 55, because that's a typical decision maker at your audience

[00:24:24] who has searched the terms biomedical device technology or whatever you decide is your vertical, your niche. And then what happens is your video, your 30 second spot lands in front of them as they're just scrolling. And then they come to a form to get a longer piece of your content. Setting up a funnel like that, if you hire an agency, it takes a week. If you try to do it yourself, it probably takes a month.

[00:24:53] But it's so inexpensive and stupid simple that you could just set it and forget it. People aren't going to click on your piece of content if it's not exactly what they want. You need to make sure that that 30 second spot also has the captions over it that literally call to you. Like if I'm selling to chief marketing officers, I'm going to say, are you a CMO in the tech industry? And the words are going to say, are you a CMO in the tech industry? And then the word go away because they would have clicked.

[00:25:22] They would have said, oh, I want to hear what she has to say. So I think getting to the point where MSPs are using Instagram more and the ads more. My Instagram budget is about $2,000 a month, including the agency to manage it. If I did that on LinkedIn, it would be $6,000 a month because each click on LinkedIn is $0,000 and each click on Instagram is like four cents.

[00:25:50] Thank you for sharing some information about how to explore different platforms for advertising. I'm looking forward to hearing how things go with Channel Maven in 2025 and beyond. Thanks so much for having me. Take care. Bye. You've been listening to win with Richardson and Richardson. What's important now?

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